Interesting Terry as it seemed as if you criticized me for questioning - even calling me a prejudiced person for asking a question (not even criticizing:) Maybe it would help if you read Richard Rohr's email meditation from this morning (June 21)
I am a new reader if yours and I haven't read this book you are talking about but I did just read Freeing Jesus and I loved that book. I will be reading more of your books; may even start with this one you are talking about.
However, I thought it was interesting that you ended your article talking about smoke. I want to share something I wrote a few weeks ago.
Fog
Can't see it its just not there.
Like puffs of smoke covering everything.
You try to see through the fog but it's too thick, each day it gets thicker.
Blindness has caused so much pain.
Each day the fog gets thicker the more hopelessness sets in.
A smokey veil over the land,
No amount of sunlight can burn off the fog.
Hate is the fog that has set in.
Love has to be the sunlight, but the light dims each day.
When will the sun rise?
I am apart of the LGBTQ + Community and I am scared everyday of what might be coming. And I can get really low at times. So low that I don't feel like being here anymore. In Freeing Jesus when you wrote about the window and the shards, that has stuck with me. It is so scary when those thoughts come to me, thank God for my therapist. You are right love is the answer but I just don't think it will change hate minded people. It breaks my heart and enstills fear in me more and more everyday to the point that I don't leave my house unless absolutely necessary. But then I guess that is what the Republicans want for us to just go away.
My hope is that you can find hope in connecting with a community of friends and allies to ride through this current backlash, be a light that clears the fog of hate. I believe change can and will happen. Love is a powerful force and many stand with you and your right to exist, to safety, health and happiness. Isolation empowers those that who bully, discourage or harm LGBTQ+ individuals and their families. I am part of your family and stand with you as do many. Voices of support, love don't make the headlines like they should!
Trump is the reason for the revival that will come. Seeing other Christians rally around such an evil person gives momentum for the quiet Christians to speak up and out. It was the spark.
Greatly helpful in understanding but is the political environment only to blame or lack of individual, family, community and public education about what it means to be a decent human being and a neighbor?
The use of a climate smoke analogy as an explanation of cultural backlash is brilliant. It is the perfect way to make the problem understandable for all but the most obtuse, Diana.
Those of us in service to our faith are like chaplains in a war zone. Our churches, worshipping communities and gatherings of faithful increasingly function like outposts or triage centers. Yes we are to love by living in service, caring for the people, touching the pain, standing for justice, extending mercy, demonstrating our belief, responding with hope from the Holy Divine. Such actions may lead us to harm, there will be no victory parade on the town square, we may become more marginalized, despised by some who call themselves Christians, but it is not ours to "win" this world, or sit a government. As Mr. Berry's lovely "Vision" tells us, this is a long game and we find our Lord in the hardship. Tom Cochrun, Cambria Ca
Here is the response that seems to have been removed. I did try to repost it but it won't go. Not sure what happened. I think you totally misunderstood my question. I agree with you that they deserve safety, dignity, and happiness. What I was asking is - Is all they are promoting good for all of us (i.e. society) in general.? I would ask the same question of the heterosexual community. (and the Church as I did above) Your invitation to leave is premature. To give some context with respect to the LBGTQ community - I have worked with, hired, advanced, had live in my home with all my family, fed, furnished, met with and had good discussions with members of these groups. Wanting good for others and agreeing with all they want/say can be two different things.
I don't discount Christians with "absolutist values" out of hand. For some, matters of conscience, not animosity, are involved. Everything depends on attitudes toward those who disagree. The worst kinds of absolutism, religious or otherwise, are those which require others to step in line or be eliminated in one way or another. As much as I'd like to be optimistic about the positive effect of promoting "love", tolerance is, I think, the real issue. And for that to have a shot, a healthy political system needs to be in place to allow for it. The crisis we face is the intent of extemists to usurp the system to their absolute control. People like that will only "convert" (including "repentance") when they face their own crisis of conscience. For the rest of us, a faith in the system we have, for all its flaws, is essential. Then we have to work like heck to give it its best chance to work.
I had accepted the theory that the church was on a re-invention of the "every 500 years" variety espoused by Phyllis Tickle in her The Great Emergence. but I see in checking the book that it was published in BT (Before Trump) 2008, and so also doesn't allow for how the US (and too much of at least the western world) changed since that time.
As a watcher from Canada, I'm afraid I have to say that I feel Trump reflected more of the state of the US than started much anew. The US struggles with problems, and many of them come as a warning to us. We have our own issues at the moment, with a rapid slide into liberalism and the resulting right-wing backlash, particularly the one growing in our western provinces. Your description of the Right offering a return to the Good Old Days is apt, and that's basically what the Right is offering in Canada as well. We live in a scary time for many reasons. Many people feel a return to the days of yore will cure it all. Unfortunately, you can't go home again, despite the promises of the Right. It probably gains them votes, but people will, of course, find they can't deliver. Time is a one-way street.
My apologies on the wildfire smoke. The number of fires we're dealing with this spring is certainly a message for those who feel Climate Change is having little effect, or that we will not be affected in our lifetimes. Canada's forests are a valuable asset to handle carbon emissions... burned down, not so much.
I don’t know the source, but I heard that some school district is considering putting the Bible on their Banned List. Has anyone else heard this and the state it’s coming from?
I've been watching a documentary called "Impossible Peace" about the time between the end of WWI and WWII. Hitler used to talk about "making Germany great again." The punitive Treaty of Versailles was devastating to Germany, and there were many, many other factors, but the similarity between various brands of authoritarianism is alarming.
I read Shirer's book, "The Rise and the Fall of the Third Reich" in 1968 or so - and it's never left me. Now, I'm reading it again, and it feels like what I read in today's LA Times, or hear on the news. It is alarming, and folks who support Democracy cannot rest on their laurels, if you will; the Brown Shirts were out for blood, and when they got it, they took the world to hell with them.
I didn't remember the Wendell Berry poem from the book. What a wonderful vision--it reminds me of Micah 4:1-5, especially verse 4.
Speaking of Berry, has he published much nonfiction recently? I haven't kept up, and I wonder what his specific thoughts might be about things like Trumpism and what increasingly appears to be an imminent ecological collapse.
Does the very fact that the groups represented by the letters LGBTQ exist mean that all they represent and want is good for society? I don't accept that all the Christian denominations that exist and all the varied things they want to see accomplished in society is good. When you use the word "inclusive" are you including without any evaluation of a greater good?
Terry - just wondering if merely asking this question makes me a "prejudiced person". Can a non-prejudiced person ask this question? I do see that you have not tried to answer it.
It amazing how fast you can declare someone who is asking a legitimate question a prejudiced person. Why don't you try answering the question. Did you read my response above? It got moved so you may have to look for it. I enjoy Diana's blog but I also feel free to ask questions because of the general tone of this blog. Your response seems to suggest otherwise.
I'm not questioning your freedom to write ANYTHING here. But you are questioning my freedom to criticize it.
Interesting Terry as it seemed as if you criticized me for questioning - even calling me a prejudiced person for asking a question (not even criticizing:) Maybe it would help if you read Richard Rohr's email meditation from this morning (June 21)
Hi Diana,
I am a new reader if yours and I haven't read this book you are talking about but I did just read Freeing Jesus and I loved that book. I will be reading more of your books; may even start with this one you are talking about.
However, I thought it was interesting that you ended your article talking about smoke. I want to share something I wrote a few weeks ago.
Fog
Can't see it its just not there.
Like puffs of smoke covering everything.
You try to see through the fog but it's too thick, each day it gets thicker.
Blindness has caused so much pain.
Each day the fog gets thicker the more hopelessness sets in.
A smokey veil over the land,
No amount of sunlight can burn off the fog.
Hate is the fog that has set in.
Love has to be the sunlight, but the light dims each day.
When will the sun rise?
I am apart of the LGBTQ + Community and I am scared everyday of what might be coming. And I can get really low at times. So low that I don't feel like being here anymore. In Freeing Jesus when you wrote about the window and the shards, that has stuck with me. It is so scary when those thoughts come to me, thank God for my therapist. You are right love is the answer but I just don't think it will change hate minded people. It breaks my heart and enstills fear in me more and more everyday to the point that I don't leave my house unless absolutely necessary. But then I guess that is what the Republicans want for us to just go away.
I am so sorry that things are so difficult for you.. in the midst of all the hate, you are loved.
My hope is that you can find hope in connecting with a community of friends and allies to ride through this current backlash, be a light that clears the fog of hate. I believe change can and will happen. Love is a powerful force and many stand with you and your right to exist, to safety, health and happiness. Isolation empowers those that who bully, discourage or harm LGBTQ+ individuals and their families. I am part of your family and stand with you as do many. Voices of support, love don't make the headlines like they should!
Trump is the reason for the revival that will come. Seeing other Christians rally around such an evil person gives momentum for the quiet Christians to speak up and out. It was the spark.
Greatly helpful in understanding but is the political environment only to blame or lack of individual, family, community and public education about what it means to be a decent human being and a neighbor?
The use of a climate smoke analogy as an explanation of cultural backlash is brilliant. It is the perfect way to make the problem understandable for all but the most obtuse, Diana.
Those of us in service to our faith are like chaplains in a war zone. Our churches, worshipping communities and gatherings of faithful increasingly function like outposts or triage centers. Yes we are to love by living in service, caring for the people, touching the pain, standing for justice, extending mercy, demonstrating our belief, responding with hope from the Holy Divine. Such actions may lead us to harm, there will be no victory parade on the town square, we may become more marginalized, despised by some who call themselves Christians, but it is not ours to "win" this world, or sit a government. As Mr. Berry's lovely "Vision" tells us, this is a long game and we find our Lord in the hardship. Tom Cochrun, Cambria Ca
Thank you so much. Not fear but builds on fear - a political strategy that turns the focus away from the marginalized/oppressed... ... i feel sick.
My response to your comment seems to have been removed. Can you explain this to me please.
I have no idea.
I tried to correct a spelling error and when I hit "SAVE" it would not accept my response.
Is there a way to put my response back in the thread it came from? Thanks
Here is the response that seems to have been removed. I did try to repost it but it won't go. Not sure what happened. I think you totally misunderstood my question. I agree with you that they deserve safety, dignity, and happiness. What I was asking is - Is all they are promoting good for all of us (i.e. society) in general.? I would ask the same question of the heterosexual community. (and the Church as I did above) Your invitation to leave is premature. To give some context with respect to the LBGTQ community - I have worked with, hired, advanced, had live in my home with all my family, fed, furnished, met with and had good discussions with members of these groups. Wanting good for others and agreeing with all they want/say can be two different things.
I am a little disappointed that no one tried to answer this question especially you Diana.
This is fantastic and spot on. Thank you for such an outstanding job describing very complex social patterns and power structures.
I don't discount Christians with "absolutist values" out of hand. For some, matters of conscience, not animosity, are involved. Everything depends on attitudes toward those who disagree. The worst kinds of absolutism, religious or otherwise, are those which require others to step in line or be eliminated in one way or another. As much as I'd like to be optimistic about the positive effect of promoting "love", tolerance is, I think, the real issue. And for that to have a shot, a healthy political system needs to be in place to allow for it. The crisis we face is the intent of extemists to usurp the system to their absolute control. People like that will only "convert" (including "repentance") when they face their own crisis of conscience. For the rest of us, a faith in the system we have, for all its flaws, is essential. Then we have to work like heck to give it its best chance to work.
I had accepted the theory that the church was on a re-invention of the "every 500 years" variety espoused by Phyllis Tickle in her The Great Emergence. but I see in checking the book that it was published in BT (Before Trump) 2008, and so also doesn't allow for how the US (and too much of at least the western world) changed since that time.
As a watcher from Canada, I'm afraid I have to say that I feel Trump reflected more of the state of the US than started much anew. The US struggles with problems, and many of them come as a warning to us. We have our own issues at the moment, with a rapid slide into liberalism and the resulting right-wing backlash, particularly the one growing in our western provinces. Your description of the Right offering a return to the Good Old Days is apt, and that's basically what the Right is offering in Canada as well. We live in a scary time for many reasons. Many people feel a return to the days of yore will cure it all. Unfortunately, you can't go home again, despite the promises of the Right. It probably gains them votes, but people will, of course, find they can't deliver. Time is a one-way street.
My apologies on the wildfire smoke. The number of fires we're dealing with this spring is certainly a message for those who feel Climate Change is having little effect, or that we will not be affected in our lifetimes. Canada's forests are a valuable asset to handle carbon emissions... burned down, not so much.
Enjoyed your essay very much. I had not thought about it all quite that way and it was illuminating. Many thanks.
I don’t know the source, but I heard that some school district is considering putting the Bible on their Banned List. Has anyone else heard this and the state it’s coming from?
Utah. The Book of Mormon has also been flagged.
I've been watching a documentary called "Impossible Peace" about the time between the end of WWI and WWII. Hitler used to talk about "making Germany great again." The punitive Treaty of Versailles was devastating to Germany, and there were many, many other factors, but the similarity between various brands of authoritarianism is alarming.
I read Shirer's book, "The Rise and the Fall of the Third Reich" in 1968 or so - and it's never left me. Now, I'm reading it again, and it feels like what I read in today's LA Times, or hear on the news. It is alarming, and folks who support Democracy cannot rest on their laurels, if you will; the Brown Shirts were out for blood, and when they got it, they took the world to hell with them.
I didn't remember the Wendell Berry poem from the book. What a wonderful vision--it reminds me of Micah 4:1-5, especially verse 4.
Speaking of Berry, has he published much nonfiction recently? I haven't kept up, and I wonder what his specific thoughts might be about things like Trumpism and what increasingly appears to be an imminent ecological collapse.
Does the very fact that the groups represented by the letters LGBTQ exist mean that all they represent and want is good for society? I don't accept that all the Christian denominations that exist and all the varied things they want to see accomplished in society is good. When you use the word "inclusive" are you including without any evaluation of a greater good?
You seem to be just another prejudiced person trying to clothe your objections in ostensibly legitimate language. I am not fooled.
Terry - just wondering if merely asking this question makes me a "prejudiced person". Can a non-prejudiced person ask this question? I do see that you have not tried to answer it.
It amazing how fast you can declare someone who is asking a legitimate question a prejudiced person. Why don't you try answering the question. Did you read my response above? It got moved so you may have to look for it. I enjoy Diana's blog but I also feel free to ask questions because of the general tone of this blog. Your response seems to suggest otherwise.
They are HUMAN BEINGS and deserve safety, dignity, and the right to happiness. If you think otherwise, you are invited to leave.
Diana I think you might benefit from reading Richard Rorhr's email meditation this morning. Still waiting for you to answer my question.
I had to repost my response to you above. Hope it came through. I tried to correct a spelling error and then when I hit "SAVE" it won't let me post.