As a 75 year old retired pastor, my “awakening “ began with National Guard troops gunning down college students protesting Vietnam. For me, It has never stopped since that day. We have lost touch with the source of our being and our unity with one another and our world. We list the deaths of so many young black men at the hands of police, the emergence of the LGBTQ rights movement, Trump election, the Supreme Court rulings, but we cannot overlook the nightly litany of horror caused by our fascination with our guns and our 2nd amendment rights. I pray we WILL be awakened to a new reality...a new. Life Together ( a hint of Bonhoeffer here?]
I’m late to this thread, but I’ve experienced many events that have revealed systemic instability. 2016. Trumps effect on the Supreme Court. But I also have a question, maybe too broad for this particular discussion...what about Climate Change? And all the extreme weather events that have happened in recent years. I know it might be seen as more “nature” than “culture” but Climate Change definitely signals that the world is changing, and will continue to change, rapidly. It seems like an awakening of some sort might be necessary in the face if it. It’s huge.
Debra, I don’t think climate change is too broad. It is the existential crisis we all know ourselves to be in but are afraid to speak aloud. Thank you for bringing it into this conversation. Any spirituality or religion that cannot offer hope in the face of such a self-created monster is destined to be lost by the wayside.
I was pondering the 'revival' / 'awakening' concepts and wondered if there are any 'awakenings' that I could think of. Then it popped into my head that the Reformation of the 1500s was indeed an Awakening. Society and religion shifted in major ways due to the new thinking (and fighting). And of course, we are in the moment of 'every 500 years a shift comes onto the horizon'. None of this happens quickly, or easily, but can indeed be good for the sake of humanity, and the church.
Like Diana, I am a historian of American religion, and was very taken when I first read William McLoughlin’s book in grad school. My copy has more highlighting than not! In discussing the book with my advisor, i wondered what he might say about his Fourth Great Awakening in light of the Reagan years (RAR was published in 1978). My advisor suggested I write him and ask, so I did. That was in spring 1992; McLoughlin died later that year. He graciously responded to my letter -- but sadly, I have been unsuccessful to date in searching for his note.
The event that most personally impacted me was the election of 2016 (I’m still with her) and I’ve been perpetually dismayed since by the decline in public discourse. I’m not surprised by the rise of Nones -- I’ve seen it over time in my extended family. For context, I’m a Lutheran preacher’s kid from Chicago, but in several job-related relocations since 2004, I’ve found it harder to find a congregation, especially here in the South, where Lutherans are scarce. I had been visiting an Episcopal church but since Covid have worshipped online at the Washington National Cathedral, where I so appreciate their intentional attention to current events and inclusive welcome to all.
Using every ounce of restraint here not to write more about my own church search since leaving the church of my younger years, the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod.
I have been pastoring churches since 2010 and no matter whether the congregation was exclusive or inclusive the trend that you spoke of Diana rings true. My whole entire ministry has been one of a hospice chaplain walking alongside dying churches.
Even yesterday, I was in a conversation with a young electrician tending to a power source issue in my current parsonage. He coming from a conservative background and me speaking from a messy progressive place. He wants his kids to be raised in the church but his wife has experienced the worst of religion and refuses to allow her children to be exposed. We talked about the death of religion and the what's next for those who choose to remain spiritual. Perhaps that's where we all need to travel in our discussions. We cannot and should not continue trying to create the past religious institutions. Instead, we must venture where no faithful have gone before and create new ways to live out the gospel loving God and neighbor--all neighbors as we love ourselves.
At first I didn't think any of these affected me more than others, then I remembered that watching the news and Twitter since Trumps win, in particular certain politicians, I had reactions that surprised and dismayed me.
As a young Christian at 19, the way I was discipled fit me in just the right way for certain lessons to go deep. In particular the need to follow and obey Jesus. For me, the two values that became part of my core were love and forgiveness. Now, personally I've never had huge or harsh things to forgive, but I had seen the effects of unforgiveness on individuals and groups and still grieve when I see it, even though I know it's complicated. As for love, I've often struggled with what love looks like, but it is a foundation stone for how I want to live, and what I want to see lived out.
I also learned about blessing others. I believe that words 'spoken' to, for or about others are extremely powerful and affect not just those they are directed to, ourselves and those around either, whether for good or bad. I think it relates to our eyes being windows of the soul. The way we see others reflects/affects what is inside us.
I've never been one to pray 'smite them' or anything similar on anyone.
As I have watched and listened to these politicians, I have repeatedly struggled with 'smite them' thoughts. For one in particular. This is not who I want to be. (And it's not Trump. I recognize the way he behaves, and while he is hard to pray about, he is not the most difficult.)
In Human Development class, we looked at Adler. What really caught my attention was the idea that any behavior/action has a 'good purpose'. We might not see the good purpose, and the results might be something extremely harmful, but the individual, at least begins, with a purpose to their benefit.
Most, if not all, of our behaviors stem from our fears. If I looks to the fears we often hold, I can begin to pray for my 'enemies' in light of these fears and see them as fellow human beings, and even more, as a person who is beloved of God.
I think my struggle in this is helping me dig deeper in loving God, myself and others.
I think our pride believes we are living in some exceptional time. Looking over a larger picture of our evolving humanity says differently. We strive for community. Our suffering has worsened because we have been misled with the idea that making money is the most important thing. It is not. Building relationships to support each other is.
oops! Meant to say too that our iphones and social media has had a huge impact too. What a world we now live in with so much at our fingertips. So many wonderful blogs from voices that I would never have heard from before.
Thank you Diana for all these questions. I hope to enter the time tomorrow. The overall of the last 20 years was so insightful. So much has happened in the culture and in my family that has changed so dramatically.
One of my mentors is the Rev. Tilda Norberg, creator of Gestalt Pastoral Care (a healing modality)and author of "Consenting to Grace" (among other titles). In "Consenting to Grace," Tilda tells the story of a pastor who came to her with constant bodily pain after a many years in ministry. He felt like a failure: his churches has never grown, he had never won any converts that he knew of. His ministry career had been entirely small and unremarkable. During their session, Tilda invited him to speak directly to Jesus about his experiences and feelings about his ministry. Jesus replied to him, "I called you to be faithful, not successful." When he received this message from Jesus, the pain left his body. I think that during these dwindling days of institutional Christianity as we know it, those still committed to being Christians will need to focus far more on being faithful and less concerned about being successful (as we've come to define it). If we don't, it's going to be really painful.
I'm in Texas. Tourist marketing for this state uses the tagline: "it's like a whole other country." It's true. The "awakening" elements described could equally apply to the Christian Nationalist (MAGA) movement that's vocal and widespread here. These are my neighbors we're talking about. When they start sharing they are equally convinced there is a "crisis of legitimacy, and " that "decline of Christianity" is real and troubling. Of course, their response to these developments is nothing like what we're disucssing here. It's scary. When you are living it the midst of it, it's hard to know how to respond in a constructive and loving way.
It’s time for a new non-institutional, evolutionary “third story” worldview, based on science that includes the wisdom of diverse religious traditions, but without the dogmas.
I belong to the United Church of Canada. It is a mainstream Protestant denomination in communion with the United Church of Christ in the US. I am really proud of my UCC. We have struggled with the negative impact our residential schools had and are working to build right relations. We have modified our crest to include indigenous symbols; during services, we acknowledge that our churches are on unceded land. We actively support LGBTQ2S+ folk. We have been commended by the National Observer for our work in environmental sustainability. Our congregations/members range from moderately conservative to quite progressive (that’s includes me). I do pulpit supply and so have had the opportunity to lead worship in a number of congregations. Each on has a slightly different order of service. My UCC has helped me to be spiritual and religious. I certainly hope that there will be a place for a Christian community, like my UCC, which encourages questions
The quote from Dorothy’s post I find interesting is “The energy is still in the “and,” with those who somehow are seeking to combine or renew their faith traditions with a sense of the spiritual — connecting more deeply with God, one another, creation, and their communities.”, but I don’t find this in the institutional church, which in many cases is preoccupied with preserving what is left of their dwindling, aging membership. John Dorhauer pointed to “something new emerging” in his 2016 book Beyond Belief. We are experiencing a huge shift from a first to second axial conscious according to Ilia Delia.
At least right now, I feel that the change for me over the past 10 years is that I am increasingly aware that what I knew as traditional authorities have all been delegitimized - old-line news media, government, religious groups, medical authorities, schools, etc. There is far less trust in all of these. It's like we've taken the idea that some things are nuanced and relative and turned it into "there are no hard truths, everyone can create their own truth". The corollary is that if someone else's truth is different from your own, then theirs must not be legitimate. So in a polarized society, all sides see their opponents as illegitimate, and we mostly talk past each other rather than observing and learning from one another. This whole thing is part of what gives me despair if I dwell on it too much.
On another note, regarding the definition of revival: I grew up in the Southern Baptist tradition in the 50s-60s. My remembrance is that revival was a congregational event (local) that held the intention of impacting individuals in the congregation and surrounding community. There was even a hymn that we apparently sang enough for me to still remember, titled "Revive us Again".
I just want to throw this into the mixture. When I am asked to describe myself religiously , I tell people I am a non-institutional Christian. I am an affiliate of a church where I now live. And I have not broken ties where with the church from which I came. Last Sunday I attended online and Inter Faith Service on-line to support a Jewish Temple Congregation that had been randomly intentionally by a national hate group the weekend before. I was on line with 100 others and 900 in a Christian Church and Islam and other clergy were representative there as well. I had not intended to spend the whole day in church but so thankful for the opportunity to be with the Jewish Community and continue to support It felt like part of an Awakening. I did go to church in the morning. Hope is signs of Awakening. And today The Philadelphia Briefing about the mass shooting was held in a Church. hmmm?
In 2022, the pandemic was the final act of our church community in a small rural Washington State location. I was Senior Warden of my six person congregation - with only one under 60 years old. Organized Anglicanism came to this rural community in earnest in 1910, with the church building consecrated in October 1911.
I came to the church in 1955 as the first and only child of my mom & dad - my mother the organist, father a licensed lay reader. Stewardship, budgets and ordained ministry were always issues. In 1993 our congregation became what’s referred to as a Total Ministry Congregation one of our own congregation being ordained. We were a TCM congregation since then. We raised up four more congregants for ordination - two to the priesthood and two to the deaconate. Then the rules changed. In my view, the resistance of the seminary trained clergy was the primary driver. The institution could not find a way around and has, in my opinion, floundered for several years with more meetings and study but no concrete answers. Many other small church congregations continue to struggle as time rolls by. Losing "your" church in the community you've spent a lifetime in is emotional. I am know "unattached." I will no longer be counted as a member in good standing. Another interesting rule. So many ideas run through my head on what to do. I not really angry with anyone in the church. I do contribute to an area homeless ministry, but mostly feel lost.
I have the book waiting for me when I get home this weekend. During our TCM circle weekly study sessions which I attended for four years we read Phyllis Tickle, among others. I think if we wait around for seminary trained ordained ministers to create and serve our communities, nothing will change. Yet it is hard to "violate" the rubrics listed in the BCP without feeling guilty. Perpetual morning prayer without the Eucharist is just not spiritually filling. Our institutions are having great difficulty with the People of the Way. Thanks for the opportunity to share.
I have many sad feelings reading this. Part of the institutional collapse is that the professionals in any such organization close ranks and protect the goods of status. It is a natural response, but for the church it is the death of creativity in settings like yours. I love my clergy friends - and know they have very hard jobs - but the best of them understand that the institution isn't really the point but the work of the Spirit and the communities they serve are the point. Sadly, fear is driving the ecclesial bus right now - and that means we can expect more hyper-clericalism, more gate-keeping, and a hardening of roles. It is exactly the wrong direction for moving into the future. But I've seen this get nothing but worse in recent years and I'm not optimistic that most religious institutions will do anything but institutional protection - and thus ensure their own irrelevance and demise.
I've seen something similar in my current path, Unitarian Universalism. I attended seminary on a path towards ministry before life happened and things changed. I saw that students who needed to be part-time struggled for support while the structures were all based on a process that rushed students through. There was little thought about the possibility of bi-vocational ministry or the old idea of "circuit-riding" to serve multiple small congregations. It just feels like the credentialing process isn't willing to change its vision. Perhaps others, particularly those who made it through the process, might have a different view, but this is what I see.
As a 75 year old retired pastor, my “awakening “ began with National Guard troops gunning down college students protesting Vietnam. For me, It has never stopped since that day. We have lost touch with the source of our being and our unity with one another and our world. We list the deaths of so many young black men at the hands of police, the emergence of the LGBTQ rights movement, Trump election, the Supreme Court rulings, but we cannot overlook the nightly litany of horror caused by our fascination with our guns and our 2nd amendment rights. I pray we WILL be awakened to a new reality...a new. Life Together ( a hint of Bonhoeffer here?]
I’m late to this thread, but I’ve experienced many events that have revealed systemic instability. 2016. Trumps effect on the Supreme Court. But I also have a question, maybe too broad for this particular discussion...what about Climate Change? And all the extreme weather events that have happened in recent years. I know it might be seen as more “nature” than “culture” but Climate Change definitely signals that the world is changing, and will continue to change, rapidly. It seems like an awakening of some sort might be necessary in the face if it. It’s huge.
Yes Debra you have company ! In your thinking,
Debra, I don’t think climate change is too broad. It is the existential crisis we all know ourselves to be in but are afraid to speak aloud. Thank you for bringing it into this conversation. Any spirituality or religion that cannot offer hope in the face of such a self-created monster is destined to be lost by the wayside.
I was pondering the 'revival' / 'awakening' concepts and wondered if there are any 'awakenings' that I could think of. Then it popped into my head that the Reformation of the 1500s was indeed an Awakening. Society and religion shifted in major ways due to the new thinking (and fighting). And of course, we are in the moment of 'every 500 years a shift comes onto the horizon'. None of this happens quickly, or easily, but can indeed be good for the sake of humanity, and the church.
Like Diana, I am a historian of American religion, and was very taken when I first read William McLoughlin’s book in grad school. My copy has more highlighting than not! In discussing the book with my advisor, i wondered what he might say about his Fourth Great Awakening in light of the Reagan years (RAR was published in 1978). My advisor suggested I write him and ask, so I did. That was in spring 1992; McLoughlin died later that year. He graciously responded to my letter -- but sadly, I have been unsuccessful to date in searching for his note.
The event that most personally impacted me was the election of 2016 (I’m still with her) and I’ve been perpetually dismayed since by the decline in public discourse. I’m not surprised by the rise of Nones -- I’ve seen it over time in my extended family. For context, I’m a Lutheran preacher’s kid from Chicago, but in several job-related relocations since 2004, I’ve found it harder to find a congregation, especially here in the South, where Lutherans are scarce. I had been visiting an Episcopal church but since Covid have worshipped online at the Washington National Cathedral, where I so appreciate their intentional attention to current events and inclusive welcome to all.
Using every ounce of restraint here not to write more about my own church search since leaving the church of my younger years, the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod.
I have been pastoring churches since 2010 and no matter whether the congregation was exclusive or inclusive the trend that you spoke of Diana rings true. My whole entire ministry has been one of a hospice chaplain walking alongside dying churches.
Even yesterday, I was in a conversation with a young electrician tending to a power source issue in my current parsonage. He coming from a conservative background and me speaking from a messy progressive place. He wants his kids to be raised in the church but his wife has experienced the worst of religion and refuses to allow her children to be exposed. We talked about the death of religion and the what's next for those who choose to remain spiritual. Perhaps that's where we all need to travel in our discussions. We cannot and should not continue trying to create the past religious institutions. Instead, we must venture where no faithful have gone before and create new ways to live out the gospel loving God and neighbor--all neighbors as we love ourselves.
At first I didn't think any of these affected me more than others, then I remembered that watching the news and Twitter since Trumps win, in particular certain politicians, I had reactions that surprised and dismayed me.
As a young Christian at 19, the way I was discipled fit me in just the right way for certain lessons to go deep. In particular the need to follow and obey Jesus. For me, the two values that became part of my core were love and forgiveness. Now, personally I've never had huge or harsh things to forgive, but I had seen the effects of unforgiveness on individuals and groups and still grieve when I see it, even though I know it's complicated. As for love, I've often struggled with what love looks like, but it is a foundation stone for how I want to live, and what I want to see lived out.
I also learned about blessing others. I believe that words 'spoken' to, for or about others are extremely powerful and affect not just those they are directed to, ourselves and those around either, whether for good or bad. I think it relates to our eyes being windows of the soul. The way we see others reflects/affects what is inside us.
I've never been one to pray 'smite them' or anything similar on anyone.
As I have watched and listened to these politicians, I have repeatedly struggled with 'smite them' thoughts. For one in particular. This is not who I want to be. (And it's not Trump. I recognize the way he behaves, and while he is hard to pray about, he is not the most difficult.)
In Human Development class, we looked at Adler. What really caught my attention was the idea that any behavior/action has a 'good purpose'. We might not see the good purpose, and the results might be something extremely harmful, but the individual, at least begins, with a purpose to their benefit.
Most, if not all, of our behaviors stem from our fears. If I looks to the fears we often hold, I can begin to pray for my 'enemies' in light of these fears and see them as fellow human beings, and even more, as a person who is beloved of God.
I think my struggle in this is helping me dig deeper in loving God, myself and others.
I think our pride believes we are living in some exceptional time. Looking over a larger picture of our evolving humanity says differently. We strive for community. Our suffering has worsened because we have been misled with the idea that making money is the most important thing. It is not. Building relationships to support each other is.
oops! Meant to say too that our iphones and social media has had a huge impact too. What a world we now live in with so much at our fingertips. So many wonderful blogs from voices that I would never have heard from before.
Thank you Diana for all these questions. I hope to enter the time tomorrow. The overall of the last 20 years was so insightful. So much has happened in the culture and in my family that has changed so dramatically.
One of my mentors is the Rev. Tilda Norberg, creator of Gestalt Pastoral Care (a healing modality)and author of "Consenting to Grace" (among other titles). In "Consenting to Grace," Tilda tells the story of a pastor who came to her with constant bodily pain after a many years in ministry. He felt like a failure: his churches has never grown, he had never won any converts that he knew of. His ministry career had been entirely small and unremarkable. During their session, Tilda invited him to speak directly to Jesus about his experiences and feelings about his ministry. Jesus replied to him, "I called you to be faithful, not successful." When he received this message from Jesus, the pain left his body. I think that during these dwindling days of institutional Christianity as we know it, those still committed to being Christians will need to focus far more on being faithful and less concerned about being successful (as we've come to define it). If we don't, it's going to be really painful.
I'm in Texas. Tourist marketing for this state uses the tagline: "it's like a whole other country." It's true. The "awakening" elements described could equally apply to the Christian Nationalist (MAGA) movement that's vocal and widespread here. These are my neighbors we're talking about. When they start sharing they are equally convinced there is a "crisis of legitimacy, and " that "decline of Christianity" is real and troubling. Of course, their response to these developments is nothing like what we're disucssing here. It's scary. When you are living it the midst of it, it's hard to know how to respond in a constructive and loving way.
Yikes!
It’s time for a new non-institutional, evolutionary “third story” worldview, based on science that includes the wisdom of diverse religious traditions, but without the dogmas.
Could that be the Unitarian church?
https://www.roguevalleyvoice.com/post/zest-for-life
I belong to the United Church of Canada. It is a mainstream Protestant denomination in communion with the United Church of Christ in the US. I am really proud of my UCC. We have struggled with the negative impact our residential schools had and are working to build right relations. We have modified our crest to include indigenous symbols; during services, we acknowledge that our churches are on unceded land. We actively support LGBTQ2S+ folk. We have been commended by the National Observer for our work in environmental sustainability. Our congregations/members range from moderately conservative to quite progressive (that’s includes me). I do pulpit supply and so have had the opportunity to lead worship in a number of congregations. Each on has a slightly different order of service. My UCC has helped me to be spiritual and religious. I certainly hope that there will be a place for a Christian community, like my UCC, which encourages questions
The quote from Dorothy’s post I find interesting is “The energy is still in the “and,” with those who somehow are seeking to combine or renew their faith traditions with a sense of the spiritual — connecting more deeply with God, one another, creation, and their communities.”, but I don’t find this in the institutional church, which in many cases is preoccupied with preserving what is left of their dwindling, aging membership. John Dorhauer pointed to “something new emerging” in his 2016 book Beyond Belief. We are experiencing a huge shift from a first to second axial conscious according to Ilia Delia.
Who is Dorothy?
Sorry, I meant Diana.
🙂
At least right now, I feel that the change for me over the past 10 years is that I am increasingly aware that what I knew as traditional authorities have all been delegitimized - old-line news media, government, religious groups, medical authorities, schools, etc. There is far less trust in all of these. It's like we've taken the idea that some things are nuanced and relative and turned it into "there are no hard truths, everyone can create their own truth". The corollary is that if someone else's truth is different from your own, then theirs must not be legitimate. So in a polarized society, all sides see their opponents as illegitimate, and we mostly talk past each other rather than observing and learning from one another. This whole thing is part of what gives me despair if I dwell on it too much.
On another note, regarding the definition of revival: I grew up in the Southern Baptist tradition in the 50s-60s. My remembrance is that revival was a congregational event (local) that held the intention of impacting individuals in the congregation and surrounding community. There was even a hymn that we apparently sang enough for me to still remember, titled "Revive us Again".
I just want to throw this into the mixture. When I am asked to describe myself religiously , I tell people I am a non-institutional Christian. I am an affiliate of a church where I now live. And I have not broken ties where with the church from which I came. Last Sunday I attended online and Inter Faith Service on-line to support a Jewish Temple Congregation that had been randomly intentionally by a national hate group the weekend before. I was on line with 100 others and 900 in a Christian Church and Islam and other clergy were representative there as well. I had not intended to spend the whole day in church but so thankful for the opportunity to be with the Jewish Community and continue to support It felt like part of an Awakening. I did go to church in the morning. Hope is signs of Awakening. And today The Philadelphia Briefing about the mass shooting was held in a Church. hmmm?
In 2022, the pandemic was the final act of our church community in a small rural Washington State location. I was Senior Warden of my six person congregation - with only one under 60 years old. Organized Anglicanism came to this rural community in earnest in 1910, with the church building consecrated in October 1911.
I came to the church in 1955 as the first and only child of my mom & dad - my mother the organist, father a licensed lay reader. Stewardship, budgets and ordained ministry were always issues. In 1993 our congregation became what’s referred to as a Total Ministry Congregation one of our own congregation being ordained. We were a TCM congregation since then. We raised up four more congregants for ordination - two to the priesthood and two to the deaconate. Then the rules changed. In my view, the resistance of the seminary trained clergy was the primary driver. The institution could not find a way around and has, in my opinion, floundered for several years with more meetings and study but no concrete answers. Many other small church congregations continue to struggle as time rolls by. Losing "your" church in the community you've spent a lifetime in is emotional. I am know "unattached." I will no longer be counted as a member in good standing. Another interesting rule. So many ideas run through my head on what to do. I not really angry with anyone in the church. I do contribute to an area homeless ministry, but mostly feel lost.
I have the book waiting for me when I get home this weekend. During our TCM circle weekly study sessions which I attended for four years we read Phyllis Tickle, among others. I think if we wait around for seminary trained ordained ministers to create and serve our communities, nothing will change. Yet it is hard to "violate" the rubrics listed in the BCP without feeling guilty. Perpetual morning prayer without the Eucharist is just not spiritually filling. Our institutions are having great difficulty with the People of the Way. Thanks for the opportunity to share.
I have many sad feelings reading this. Part of the institutional collapse is that the professionals in any such organization close ranks and protect the goods of status. It is a natural response, but for the church it is the death of creativity in settings like yours. I love my clergy friends - and know they have very hard jobs - but the best of them understand that the institution isn't really the point but the work of the Spirit and the communities they serve are the point. Sadly, fear is driving the ecclesial bus right now - and that means we can expect more hyper-clericalism, more gate-keeping, and a hardening of roles. It is exactly the wrong direction for moving into the future. But I've seen this get nothing but worse in recent years and I'm not optimistic that most religious institutions will do anything but institutional protection - and thus ensure their own irrelevance and demise.
I've seen something similar in my current path, Unitarian Universalism. I attended seminary on a path towards ministry before life happened and things changed. I saw that students who needed to be part-time struggled for support while the structures were all based on a process that rushed students through. There was little thought about the possibility of bi-vocational ministry or the old idea of "circuit-riding" to serve multiple small congregations. It just feels like the credentialing process isn't willing to change its vision. Perhaps others, particularly those who made it through the process, might have a different view, but this is what I see.