I think your take on this passage of scripture is a good one. Excellent history to understand about this period. I’m wondering still if their choice to follow Jesus still didn’t require them to make a choice to follow someone they barely at best knew. They didn’t really know him and even though their profession left them on the very low end of their world it’s what they knew. I’m thinking they came from generations of fishermen. Along comes this guy Jesus who says leave your world behind and come with me. It’s not like Jesus had money. He offered them fishing for people. What does that even mean. Yes they chose to follow Jesus but the scripture leaves us to decide that something Jesus did made them give up their lives and homes and in one situation leave their father in the boat to fend for himself. So why? They had some kind of reason to leave one situation of poverty where they at least caught food to go to another poverty situation knowing little about how they were going to eat.
I sat with my comment on this week's Sunday Musing. I also preached on this passage in Matthew yesterday. And I struggle with the use of hooks in reference to this passage.
I do agree that Jesus came to topple systems and to bring equity into corrupt systems. Yet, as I studied this passage (and my resources are much more limited than yours, I believe) I didn't read anything about use of hooks. It is my understanding, and correct me if my sources are incorrect, fishers in Jesus time would have used nets, not hooks and fishing line. Peter, Andrew, James, and John would have used nets that surrounded and gathered doing the fish the least harm (although that's where the metaphor ends as those fish surrounded and gathered would have been sold and eaten). Hooks and line puncture and injure.
In my sermon, I talked about how we too can surround and gather those who need to hear the good news of great joy that is for all people. We don't proselytize shoving our beliefs down their throats--that would be the hooks and line creating punctures and injuring. We surround and gather to be in relationship with others allowing the love we experience in God to leak out on others as we create loving relationship where all can grow.
Again, I do appreciate your thoughts on this passage, and yet, I just can't get past the harmful hooks.
Diana, weren't you just thrilled when you learned that the lesson was not sacrifice? For the fishermen to drop their fishing and follow Jesus? Context is all. I love scholarship.
Not being an historian, I am sure how many examples there are of weapon toting "christians" forcing their will and dominance on others. In more modern times the so-called brown vested clergy of Nazi Germany comes to mind. Though they didn't bear arms like the white nationalists christians, they did offer the Nazi salute and promote the vile racism of Adolf Hitler. Having said that, there were many Christians who did March to the cross by harboring Jewish children and others. There can be no doubt evil and violence, the twin war dogs of anti-gospel folks have been unleashed. Jesus teaching, based in the Torah, remains simple: Love God and love your neighbor as you love yourself.
I heard that Rome controlled the fishing industry in Galilee (and elsewhere) for the first time just this past Tuesday morning, in a sermon at the seminary (Trinity Lutheran Seminary in Columbus, Ohio). We read this passage, and the professor spoke about Rome's domination of fishing in her sermon. She also followed through with the observation that "fishing for people" involved seeking justice from oppression. I loved reading these ideas confirmed here. Thanks, Diana!
love the catfish poem... as a child of the midwest catfish was the fish of "fish-fry" fundraisers. I swear it was the best fish ever. It was also the fish I caught most often when I got to go fishing. I had never heard this poem before. Now that I live on the northern CA coast, salmon is the fish of fundraisers and social/cultural gatherings... I love salmon but it's just not the same as catfish.
How I appreciate this Sunday’s wise comments, so thanks all, in replies to your insightful offering, Diana! It’s so obvious to me, that the church as it has interpreted Scripture in self-serving ways for too long, is being transformed/re-born by the many voices and actions alive and being generated in our century’s contexts…so that it does not fade further into irrelevancy and is revealed to be prophetic and healing for the world, as promoting justice, equality, inclusivity, and full of GRACE!
CLARITY! Thank you for tying the threads and weaving a cohesive understanding of the “fishers of [people] metaphor! This speaks to my hearts desire in the disability world of services! THANK YOU!
THIS...”The first step in dismantling the dominant social order is to overturn the "world" of the disciple: in the kingdom, the personal and the political are one. . . ➡️ This is not a call "out" of the world, but into an alternative social practice.⬅️
Thanks Diana! I love how Jesus called them out of the boat only later to sit in that boat, sleep in the boat., stand and command in that boat. How he woos and teaches. So do you
Wow. Once again I am astounded with a fresh look at this common passage. Thank you Diana! I needed this today. I have been saddened that in the little church I attend epiphany has been passed over this season. It is more difficult for me to listen to the call to "save". Although I felt personally rescued when I had my most profound God experience and it came from Jesus, it never settled with me that people were "saved" or "unsaved". To believe this at the time I consciously began seeking would have been to believe God was playing a game with us. My initial journey into questioning the status quo of biblical interpretation began with a subscription to Richard Rohr's daily meditations about 15 years ago and then river begin to flow with life for me. I am so thrilled to have found you and The Cottage. I am now reading Peter Enns "The Sin of Certainty" and being set free again. Thank you for encouraging us Diana.
I think your take on this passage of scripture is a good one. Excellent history to understand about this period. I’m wondering still if their choice to follow Jesus still didn’t require them to make a choice to follow someone they barely at best knew. They didn’t really know him and even though their profession left them on the very low end of their world it’s what they knew. I’m thinking they came from generations of fishermen. Along comes this guy Jesus who says leave your world behind and come with me. It’s not like Jesus had money. He offered them fishing for people. What does that even mean. Yes they chose to follow Jesus but the scripture leaves us to decide that something Jesus did made them give up their lives and homes and in one situation leave their father in the boat to fend for himself. So why? They had some kind of reason to leave one situation of poverty where they at least caught food to go to another poverty situation knowing little about how they were going to eat.
I sat with my comment on this week's Sunday Musing. I also preached on this passage in Matthew yesterday. And I struggle with the use of hooks in reference to this passage.
I do agree that Jesus came to topple systems and to bring equity into corrupt systems. Yet, as I studied this passage (and my resources are much more limited than yours, I believe) I didn't read anything about use of hooks. It is my understanding, and correct me if my sources are incorrect, fishers in Jesus time would have used nets, not hooks and fishing line. Peter, Andrew, James, and John would have used nets that surrounded and gathered doing the fish the least harm (although that's where the metaphor ends as those fish surrounded and gathered would have been sold and eaten). Hooks and line puncture and injure.
In my sermon, I talked about how we too can surround and gather those who need to hear the good news of great joy that is for all people. We don't proselytize shoving our beliefs down their throats--that would be the hooks and line creating punctures and injuring. We surround and gather to be in relationship with others allowing the love we experience in God to leak out on others as we create loving relationship where all can grow.
Again, I do appreciate your thoughts on this passage, and yet, I just can't get past the harmful hooks.
Diana, weren't you just thrilled when you learned that the lesson was not sacrifice? For the fishermen to drop their fishing and follow Jesus? Context is all. I love scholarship.
Not being an historian, I am sure how many examples there are of weapon toting "christians" forcing their will and dominance on others. In more modern times the so-called brown vested clergy of Nazi Germany comes to mind. Though they didn't bear arms like the white nationalists christians, they did offer the Nazi salute and promote the vile racism of Adolf Hitler. Having said that, there were many Christians who did March to the cross by harboring Jewish children and others. There can be no doubt evil and violence, the twin war dogs of anti-gospel folks have been unleashed. Jesus teaching, based in the Torah, remains simple: Love God and love your neighbor as you love yourself.
Excellent, thought-provoking post, and the poems you included are perfect.
I heard that Rome controlled the fishing industry in Galilee (and elsewhere) for the first time just this past Tuesday morning, in a sermon at the seminary (Trinity Lutheran Seminary in Columbus, Ohio). We read this passage, and the professor spoke about Rome's domination of fishing in her sermon. She also followed through with the observation that "fishing for people" involved seeking justice from oppression. I loved reading these ideas confirmed here. Thanks, Diana!
Well done. Thank you.
love the catfish poem... as a child of the midwest catfish was the fish of "fish-fry" fundraisers. I swear it was the best fish ever. It was also the fish I caught most often when I got to go fishing. I had never heard this poem before. Now that I live on the northern CA coast, salmon is the fish of fundraisers and social/cultural gatherings... I love salmon but it's just not the same as catfish.
How I appreciate this Sunday’s wise comments, so thanks all, in replies to your insightful offering, Diana! It’s so obvious to me, that the church as it has interpreted Scripture in self-serving ways for too long, is being transformed/re-born by the many voices and actions alive and being generated in our century’s contexts…so that it does not fade further into irrelevancy and is revealed to be prophetic and healing for the world, as promoting justice, equality, inclusivity, and full of GRACE!
ALSO, looking forward to Lent!
CLARITY! Thank you for tying the threads and weaving a cohesive understanding of the “fishers of [people] metaphor! This speaks to my hearts desire in the disability world of services! THANK YOU!
THIS...”The first step in dismantling the dominant social order is to overturn the "world" of the disciple: in the kingdom, the personal and the political are one. . . ➡️ This is not a call "out" of the world, but into an alternative social practice.⬅️
— Ched Myers, “Binding the Strong Man”
Diana, Thank you once again for these wonderful words and thoughts.
Thanks Diana! I love how Jesus called them out of the boat only later to sit in that boat, sleep in the boat., stand and command in that boat. How he woos and teaches. So do you
Thank you Diana and all of you who committed. I have nothing to add😊 I did appreciate the catfish poem.
Wow. Once again I am astounded with a fresh look at this common passage. Thank you Diana! I needed this today. I have been saddened that in the little church I attend epiphany has been passed over this season. It is more difficult for me to listen to the call to "save". Although I felt personally rescued when I had my most profound God experience and it came from Jesus, it never settled with me that people were "saved" or "unsaved". To believe this at the time I consciously began seeking would have been to believe God was playing a game with us. My initial journey into questioning the status quo of biblical interpretation began with a subscription to Richard Rohr's daily meditations about 15 years ago and then river begin to flow with life for me. I am so thrilled to have found you and The Cottage. I am now reading Peter Enns "The Sin of Certainty" and being set free again. Thank you for encouraging us Diana.
I love history!
Thank God for Diana.
Her ability to historically contextualize Biblical narrative speaks to my soul.
I love love love Tripp and Diana colabs. Can't wait to hear more about the one for Lent.