I would appreciate that scripture be inclusive. God to me and a lot of others is not a pronoun! I always do this when I’m a worship leader, and people come up to saying, “I find this more meaningful!”
I am a subscriber. I am trying to listen to your full conversation today - May 19th. There is no link on my email. I’ve listened to the first part of the conversation, but am now cut off. Please help! I’m not very techy!!
you are one brave searcher Diana Butler Bass. Thank you for this, what a salve. I look forward to you tackling the approach to a sort of hyper-masculinity in some of the far right Evangelicals -- to me it is false, poisonous. Perhaps you have writings on this, I am prompted by Jesus and John Wayne (don't have the author's name at hand).
Thank you so much! Since God is love spoke creation into being by love, sine Jesus is the incarnation of love and as followers of the anointed one seek to live out that love, The Revalation has always been a stumbling block for me. Your essay opened my eyes. I appreciate your words. Your blogs and webinars are such a breath of fresh air!
Thank you Diana! I am a new subscriber currently reading "Freeing Jesus". I have learned to trust that books, writing, poetry come just at right time. I have needed your "words" to clarify my place in my journey. I have been refreshed and saved by your writings this morning.
Well said, Diana. For those who are interested, Brian Blount, President and NT professor at Union Presbyterian Seminary, produced an excellent DVD study of Revelation that supports a metaphorical interpretation of Revelation and offers a redemptive understanding of its message to those who suffer at the hands of Empire for their faithfulness to God’s kingdom. After you get past all of the fundamentalist prophetic nonsense, Revelation transcends retributive justice and portrays the universal grace of God proclaimed in the gospel of Jesus Christ.
I love your insights to Revelation. Even in seminary, I managed to avoid it :). Your interpretation encourages me to give it another look. "In the end, this strong, renewing feminine image displaces the violent divinity.". Thank God! I heard you are PWER's inaugural Shakti Rising.
It is quite possible to detect the meaning of the book of Revelation without taking it as a literal description of reality. When the faculty of association is facilitated, a description of the forces operating behind reality are revealed. The cycle of repetition is discernible, and what we have observed throughout history is presented with the acceleration of evil finally meeting its own demise. While this writing is graphic in the depiction of the consequences of turning away from God, perhaps the overall message is one of guidance. Being the Bride of Christ depicts union which comes full circle back to our original creation, a place of union.
When we stand up at the beginning , we find the place of the end.
Thank you for this Diana. Inevitably when I preach this, I also preach Isaiah 65:17-25……and vice versa. Tome these are ‘bookends’ to the vision of God. Especially the social Justice theme. It’s tricky to preach because of the ‘chosen people’ but I choose to preach that as Gods vision for all the people of creation as chosen. - Gods vision of new life for everyone, including those who are deemed as ‘less than’. And the vision is one of love and fulfillment. Here God says ‘I will’, and the vision of John says ‘it is.’ I think this and the Revelation are my two favourite passages.
“See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered nor will they come to mind. But be glad and rejoice forever in what I will create, for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight and its people a joy. I will rejoice over Jerusalem and take delight in my people; the sound of weeping and of crying will be heard in it no more. Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old one who does not live out full years; the one who dies at a hundred will be considered a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.
They will build houses and dwell in them; they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit. No longer will they build houses and others live in them, or plant and others eat. For as the days of a tree, so will be the days of my people; my chosen ones will long enjoy the work of their hands. They will not labour in vain nor will they bear children doomed to misfortune, for they will be a people blessed by the Lord, they and their descendants with them. Before they call I will answer, while they are still speaking I will hear. The wolf and the lamb will feed together, the lion will eat straw like the ox, and dust will be the serpent’s food. They will not harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain,” says the Lord.
I think Revelation is a warning that whenever we stray as a society that God will make a correction to return us to a relationship with him. A new relationship that throws off the old. I believe we are experiencing a time of correction currently. The church is in need of correction because people are not seeking a relationship with God. They believe there is only one possibility at the end of this journey - true death. Revelation is a warning of a correction, and I believe we are experiencing such a time now.
I believe our former president is an anti-Christ. That is not a political statement but rather comes from a religious point of view. This is a man of no morals or convictions. While the evangelicals rally around him, he disavows one of the very tenants of their beliefs: he stated that he has "nothing to be forgiven for." Evangelicals have sold their souls over their two main causes: abortion and homosexuality. Of course, these are the two "sins" they cannot or will not commit. That makes it a place of pride where they can condemn those who don't conform. Then they condemn the non-believers falsely believing that will bring them into a relationship with God. It only reinforces for the non-believer to turn away from God rather than towards him. Evangelicals have chosen evil over good. God teaches us that evil only produces more evil.
The anger against religion swells.
The Catholic Church is responsible for hundreds of thousands of children to be raped worldwide. No greater sin has been committed against the church that Jesus loves. Against children who were are supposed to care for the most. A sin created from a man made law about sexuality. Currently, six Catholics sit on our Supreme Court with the intent of imposing another man made law about when life begins. The anger against religion swells.
The west has attacked the east. We currently watch daily on our televisions a small country being destroyed by a super-power. We watch and we are made afraid to anger Russia. We are closing fear over courage. China, while silent, is in alignment over Western culture. Putin, another anti-Christ, has the backing of religion as well because he hates homosexuality. Putin represents oppression yet he enjoys affirmation. The anger against religion swells.
Politics and government are becoming the same thing. When laws are made based upon one sect's interpretation of the Bible, all the other Christian's beliefs are squashed. Those who don't believe have their disbelief reinforced. This is a warning for those who love God. Religion has become corrupted.
The church needs a new message to bring people back to a relationship with God. A message of where they can find that hope and peace we are all looking for. A relationship where you are a warrior choosing good over evil every day of your life. A position of power given to you by God. Any person at any time can change their life by simply choosing to do the right thing because it is for good or God. We are spiritual beings and need to have that spiritual relationship with God in order to have any sense of peace. Plus the love, the love God puts in your heart. We have so many gifts to give. Yet the message of religion is don't have an abortion and don't be gay. I pray daily for those of us who believe that treating our brother and sister with love and loving God are the only things our minds should be on if we are living a life in the belief that this is a step in our journey. We are a miracle and God has created a world of beauty for us to live in. The love is all around us and surrounds us.
Metaphor or not - religion is under attack and will be even more so in the future. What are we going to do while we watch Jesus' church being attacked?
I would appreciate that scripture be inclusive. God to me and a lot of others is not a pronoun! I always do this when I’m a worship leader, and people come up to saying, “I find this more meaningful!”
Dr Letty Russel taught me this so long ago!
https://twitter.com/ShaneClaiborne/status/1527755707222740994?s=20&t=_zfCH6CmS2CbCw730n3PiQ
I am a subscriber. I am trying to listen to your full conversation today - May 19th. There is no link on my email. I’ve listened to the first part of the conversation, but am now cut off. Please help! I’m not very techy!!
Brendajgrauer@gmail.com
Thank you Diana . Thoughts for food. I will continue to munch away
you are one brave searcher Diana Butler Bass. Thank you for this, what a salve. I look forward to you tackling the approach to a sort of hyper-masculinity in some of the far right Evangelicals -- to me it is false, poisonous. Perhaps you have writings on this, I am prompted by Jesus and John Wayne (don't have the author's name at hand).
Greetings! I really love what you’ve said about the Book of Revelation.
Love is the great unifier.
War and violence is the great divider.
Empire is masterful at dividing.
Empire may be government, politics or economic.
Empire may be church, community or family.
Empire may be a relationship.
Jesus is the great unifier.
Jesus preached redemptive Love.
Jesus lived & taught this Love.
Love that heals, saves and renews.
This Love survives, in spite of war & violence.
Look at history. Look at our collective lives.
Look at our individual lives.
So many people are not brought up in a church or religious community.
They lack the religious or spiritual languages that are spoken in churches, synagogues, mosques, & temples.
Many do speak the language of Love.
Let’s stay with this. No evangelist language necessary.
Just be Love, breath Love.
They will know we are Christians by our love.
Right now, wearing a mask is Love. Feeding the poor is Love.
Reaching out to the addicted is Love.
Giving radical hospitality is Love.
Embracing the lost is Love.
Thy neighbor is everyone.
Give Love.
This is a path, a practice, and a struggle.
Jesus walks beside us. Jesus wipes our tears, holds our hands and gives directions when we ask.
Jesus is the Light, the gentle Lamb, & the Love we belong to.
There is nowhere else to go but to Love.
Jesus is one amazing guide to get there.
Peace be with you all.
Amen.
😊
Thank you so much! Since God is love spoke creation into being by love, sine Jesus is the incarnation of love and as followers of the anointed one seek to live out that love, The Revalation has always been a stumbling block for me. Your essay opened my eyes. I appreciate your words. Your blogs and webinars are such a breath of fresh air!
Kay, a retired UMC pastor
Thank you Diana! I am a new subscriber currently reading "Freeing Jesus". I have learned to trust that books, writing, poetry come just at right time. I have needed your "words" to clarify my place in my journey. I have been refreshed and saved by your writings this morning.
I found this so encouraging on a day that has been riddled with such disheartening news. Thank you.
Well said, Diana. For those who are interested, Brian Blount, President and NT professor at Union Presbyterian Seminary, produced an excellent DVD study of Revelation that supports a metaphorical interpretation of Revelation and offers a redemptive understanding of its message to those who suffer at the hands of Empire for their faithfulness to God’s kingdom. After you get past all of the fundamentalist prophetic nonsense, Revelation transcends retributive justice and portrays the universal grace of God proclaimed in the gospel of Jesus Christ.
I love your insights to Revelation. Even in seminary, I managed to avoid it :). Your interpretation encourages me to give it another look. "In the end, this strong, renewing feminine image displaces the violent divinity.". Thank God! I heard you are PWER's inaugural Shakti Rising.
It is quite possible to detect the meaning of the book of Revelation without taking it as a literal description of reality. When the faculty of association is facilitated, a description of the forces operating behind reality are revealed. The cycle of repetition is discernible, and what we have observed throughout history is presented with the acceleration of evil finally meeting its own demise. While this writing is graphic in the depiction of the consequences of turning away from God, perhaps the overall message is one of guidance. Being the Bride of Christ depicts union which comes full circle back to our original creation, a place of union.
When we stand up at the beginning , we find the place of the end.
Fireweed
Prayer Warriors abound,
but for Prayer Poets we plead.
Death's stench is all around;
showers of silence we need.
Give us the space at the table
for old words to be re-shaped
into new shelters capable
of storing our unimaginable horror
into, not only breath for today,
but hope for tomorrow.
The conclusion of Revelations is so joyous it is almost worth all of the terrors described.
I always think of this great old American hymn: (oddly sung with vigor by the Irish...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW9V0JD87dk
Thank you for this Diana. Inevitably when I preach this, I also preach Isaiah 65:17-25……and vice versa. Tome these are ‘bookends’ to the vision of God. Especially the social Justice theme. It’s tricky to preach because of the ‘chosen people’ but I choose to preach that as Gods vision for all the people of creation as chosen. - Gods vision of new life for everyone, including those who are deemed as ‘less than’. And the vision is one of love and fulfillment. Here God says ‘I will’, and the vision of John says ‘it is.’ I think this and the Revelation are my two favourite passages.
“See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered nor will they come to mind. But be glad and rejoice forever in what I will create, for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight and its people a joy. I will rejoice over Jerusalem and take delight in my people; the sound of weeping and of crying will be heard in it no more. Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old one who does not live out full years; the one who dies at a hundred will be considered a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.
They will build houses and dwell in them; they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit. No longer will they build houses and others live in them, or plant and others eat. For as the days of a tree, so will be the days of my people; my chosen ones will long enjoy the work of their hands. They will not labour in vain nor will they bear children doomed to misfortune, for they will be a people blessed by the Lord, they and their descendants with them. Before they call I will answer, while they are still speaking I will hear. The wolf and the lamb will feed together, the lion will eat straw like the ox, and dust will be the serpent’s food. They will not harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain,” says the Lord.
I think Revelation is a warning that whenever we stray as a society that God will make a correction to return us to a relationship with him. A new relationship that throws off the old. I believe we are experiencing a time of correction currently. The church is in need of correction because people are not seeking a relationship with God. They believe there is only one possibility at the end of this journey - true death. Revelation is a warning of a correction, and I believe we are experiencing such a time now.
I believe our former president is an anti-Christ. That is not a political statement but rather comes from a religious point of view. This is a man of no morals or convictions. While the evangelicals rally around him, he disavows one of the very tenants of their beliefs: he stated that he has "nothing to be forgiven for." Evangelicals have sold their souls over their two main causes: abortion and homosexuality. Of course, these are the two "sins" they cannot or will not commit. That makes it a place of pride where they can condemn those who don't conform. Then they condemn the non-believers falsely believing that will bring them into a relationship with God. It only reinforces for the non-believer to turn away from God rather than towards him. Evangelicals have chosen evil over good. God teaches us that evil only produces more evil.
The anger against religion swells.
The Catholic Church is responsible for hundreds of thousands of children to be raped worldwide. No greater sin has been committed against the church that Jesus loves. Against children who were are supposed to care for the most. A sin created from a man made law about sexuality. Currently, six Catholics sit on our Supreme Court with the intent of imposing another man made law about when life begins. The anger against religion swells.
The west has attacked the east. We currently watch daily on our televisions a small country being destroyed by a super-power. We watch and we are made afraid to anger Russia. We are closing fear over courage. China, while silent, is in alignment over Western culture. Putin, another anti-Christ, has the backing of religion as well because he hates homosexuality. Putin represents oppression yet he enjoys affirmation. The anger against religion swells.
Politics and government are becoming the same thing. When laws are made based upon one sect's interpretation of the Bible, all the other Christian's beliefs are squashed. Those who don't believe have their disbelief reinforced. This is a warning for those who love God. Religion has become corrupted.
The church needs a new message to bring people back to a relationship with God. A message of where they can find that hope and peace we are all looking for. A relationship where you are a warrior choosing good over evil every day of your life. A position of power given to you by God. Any person at any time can change their life by simply choosing to do the right thing because it is for good or God. We are spiritual beings and need to have that spiritual relationship with God in order to have any sense of peace. Plus the love, the love God puts in your heart. We have so many gifts to give. Yet the message of religion is don't have an abortion and don't be gay. I pray daily for those of us who believe that treating our brother and sister with love and loving God are the only things our minds should be on if we are living a life in the belief that this is a step in our journey. We are a miracle and God has created a world of beauty for us to live in. The love is all around us and surrounds us.
Metaphor or not - religion is under attack and will be even more so in the future. What are we going to do while we watch Jesus' church being attacked?