I’m curious about this: “as John taught his disciples.” Did he have a special prayer? Did John teach the Lord’s Prayer? Does it just make sense to reference John, possibly their former teacher?
Thank you! I loved this piece. It reminds me of Braiding Sweetgrass, which I read recently. In it she talks about the Native American attitude of gratitude: of thanking the plants and animals for what they give us and realizing that we have a reciprocal relationship with Creation. I loved your comment about debt and getting young people to church. My son was worrying last night about his student loan debt; it truly is a weight on his soul.
Your renderings and teachings are always a blessing. You stir new awakenings in my thought processes to bring forth deeper insights with better translations. The different adaptations of the "Our Father" are refreshing to my spirit! Shalom!
Thank you for including Neil Douglas-Klotz' version in your post. I've met him a couple times and my spiritual director was very close to him. His work has left a lasting impression on my for about 25 years, and is a key voice in my preaching and teaching. Wonderful!
This one was a real head-scratcher for me. Most of us readers (granted, FAR better trained to understand your message than I) live in a globalized (urbanized, debt-ridden and increasingly resource poor) world, not in small, agrarian villages where options were limited and everyone knew everyone and it was a lot easier (and more necessary, too, come to think about it) to be "forgiving" of your neighbors sins/transgressions/ idiosyncrasies.... especially when you pretty much understood why thy neighbor was "trespassing" against thee.
To me comparing what Jesus commanded (in a good way) us humans do/be and what is going on today when the US is no longer a melting pot by a salad bowl (as are most nations in the rest of the world) is overlooking the impact on debt, sin, forgiveness, etc. of the passage of time and the world-changing baggage that passing has brought with it.
All the above said, I'm trying to wrap my head around what forgiveness is; how to achieve it; and why I actually need to forgive a grown man who raped and impregnated a 10 year old; the persons --in high places and low-- behind the Jan 6th...whatever you want to call it; Emmit Tills murderers; the people behind Hitler's final solution...you get my drift.
Thank you for this reflection on a debt-free world. If we were to pursue this, it would certainly revolutionize our attitudes, our economic system and our relationships with one another and the environment.
I found confusing the transition of thought from the positive debt we owe God, which then this prayer cannot be addressing, and, therefore, the place of "false debt" in this prayer, and what follows. "Forsake our 'debt', as we forsake our 'debtors'" seems to be used here to follow from "false debt", but these phrases appear to have a different meaning outside that context, along the lines of traditional renderings. I can applaude the implication of leaving behind the world's systemic notion of holding others in debt as a means of power over them, of which the Roman Empire was systematic. But then, "free us from anger to those who hold us in debt", while consistent in that context, actually points to "free us from anger" toward those who abuse us - back to the traditional understanding of forgiving those who wrong us. And what do you make of "forgive us . . . AS we forgive . . ."? BTW, the 'Jubilee' likely was never observed. It came to be "spiritualized" as in the Book of Jubilees. (Of course, I know you know that.) But I'm uncomfortable with promoting our own achieving of a "debt free world", except in that we can work for justice in the Biblical sense of equal fairness under the law, i.e., "justice at the gate." In the Biblical sense, particularly referencing God's "Justice", this meant not bearing false witness, nor cheating in the market, exploiting and disenfranchizing the poor over debts or whatever, but observing all the Torah prescribed for providing for the poor. For those who lay claim to a "christian america" and the myth of "the promised land", I find what Deuteronomy 15, especially vv. 4, 7 - 11, appropo, Jubilee or no Jubilee. (I suspect that prophetic talk about God's "Justice" has, at least, the Book of Deuteronomy in mind.)
Wow, this Bible book appears to be chock full of radical leftist socialist ideas. I better get the city librarian on the horn; I shudder to think what would happen if my daughter ever saw that. Oh the horror! *100% complete snark)
Love DBB's musing on the Lord's Prayer and the poem/prayer by Wendell Berry.
I’m curious about this: “as John taught his disciples.” Did he have a special prayer? Did John teach the Lord’s Prayer? Does it just make sense to reference John, possibly their former teacher?
Thank you! I loved this piece. It reminds me of Braiding Sweetgrass, which I read recently. In it she talks about the Native American attitude of gratitude: of thanking the plants and animals for what they give us and realizing that we have a reciprocal relationship with Creation. I loved your comment about debt and getting young people to church. My son was worrying last night about his student loan debt; it truly is a weight on his soul.
Thank you, Diana,
Your renderings and teachings are always a blessing. You stir new awakenings in my thought processes to bring forth deeper insights with better translations. The different adaptations of the "Our Father" are refreshing to my spirit! Shalom!
Thank you for including Neil Douglas-Klotz' version in your post. I've met him a couple times and my spiritual director was very close to him. His work has left a lasting impression on my for about 25 years, and is a key voice in my preaching and teaching. Wonderful!
I’ve always loved the Casa del Sol adaptation of the Lord’s Prayer: God.
THE PRAYER OF JESUS
Ground of All Being, Mother of Life, Father of the Universe,
Your name is sacred, beyond speaking.
May we know your presence,
May your longings be our longings
in heart and in action.
May there be food for the human family today
and for the whole earth community.
Forgive us the falseness of what we have done
as we forgive those who are untrue to us.
Do not forsake us in our time of conflict
but lead us into new beginnings.
For the light of life, the vitality of life, and the glory of life are yours now and forever. Amen.
Yes! Wendell Berry
I can't stop reading and re-reading the Wendell Berry poem - "O Dust arise!" Wow!💚
This one was a real head-scratcher for me. Most of us readers (granted, FAR better trained to understand your message than I) live in a globalized (urbanized, debt-ridden and increasingly resource poor) world, not in small, agrarian villages where options were limited and everyone knew everyone and it was a lot easier (and more necessary, too, come to think about it) to be "forgiving" of your neighbors sins/transgressions/ idiosyncrasies.... especially when you pretty much understood why thy neighbor was "trespassing" against thee.
To me comparing what Jesus commanded (in a good way) us humans do/be and what is going on today when the US is no longer a melting pot by a salad bowl (as are most nations in the rest of the world) is overlooking the impact on debt, sin, forgiveness, etc. of the passage of time and the world-changing baggage that passing has brought with it.
All the above said, I'm trying to wrap my head around what forgiveness is; how to achieve it; and why I actually need to forgive a grown man who raped and impregnated a 10 year old; the persons --in high places and low-- behind the Jan 6th...whatever you want to call it; Emmit Tills murderers; the people behind Hitler's final solution...you get my drift.
Thank you for including two of my most favorite poets/philosophers: Parker Palmer and Wendell Berry. This was a beautiful Sunday musing.
I love these versions of the Lords Prayer...so beautiful. They widen understanding. Still reeling from Mary the Tower. Thank you for these gifts.
Thank you for this reflection on a debt-free world. If we were to pursue this, it would certainly revolutionize our attitudes, our economic system and our relationships with one another and the environment.
First Nations Version: An Indigenous Translation of the New Testament: Luke 11:2-4
2 Creator Sets Free (Jesus) smiled and said to them, “When you send your voice to the Great Spirit, here is how you should pray:
“O Great Spirit, our Father from above, your name is sacred and holy.
“Bring your good road to us, where the beauty of your ways in the spirit-world above is reflected in the earth below.
3 Provide for us day by day—the elk, the buffalo, and the salmon. The corn, the squash, and the wild rice. All the good things we need for each day.
4 “Release us from the things we have done wrong in the same way we release others for the things done wrong to us.
And guide us away from the things that tempt us to stray from your good road.”
A Womanist Version Rev. Yolanda Norton
of the prayer Jesus taught us / the Lord’s Prayer used at Grace Cathedral at the Beyonce Mass.
Our Mother,
who is heaven within us,
we call upon your names.
Your wisdom come.
Your will be done,
in all the spaces in which you dwell.
Give us each day
sustenance and perseverance.
Remind us of our limits as
we give grace to the limits of others.
Separate us from the temptation of empire
and deliver us into community.
For you are the dwelling place within us,
the empowerment around us,
and the celebration among us,
now and forever. Amen.
I found confusing the transition of thought from the positive debt we owe God, which then this prayer cannot be addressing, and, therefore, the place of "false debt" in this prayer, and what follows. "Forsake our 'debt', as we forsake our 'debtors'" seems to be used here to follow from "false debt", but these phrases appear to have a different meaning outside that context, along the lines of traditional renderings. I can applaude the implication of leaving behind the world's systemic notion of holding others in debt as a means of power over them, of which the Roman Empire was systematic. But then, "free us from anger to those who hold us in debt", while consistent in that context, actually points to "free us from anger" toward those who abuse us - back to the traditional understanding of forgiving those who wrong us. And what do you make of "forgive us . . . AS we forgive . . ."? BTW, the 'Jubilee' likely was never observed. It came to be "spiritualized" as in the Book of Jubilees. (Of course, I know you know that.) But I'm uncomfortable with promoting our own achieving of a "debt free world", except in that we can work for justice in the Biblical sense of equal fairness under the law, i.e., "justice at the gate." In the Biblical sense, particularly referencing God's "Justice", this meant not bearing false witness, nor cheating in the market, exploiting and disenfranchizing the poor over debts or whatever, but observing all the Torah prescribed for providing for the poor. For those who lay claim to a "christian america" and the myth of "the promised land", I find what Deuteronomy 15, especially vv. 4, 7 - 11, appropo, Jubilee or no Jubilee. (I suspect that prophetic talk about God's "Justice" has, at least, the Book of Deuteronomy in mind.)
Wow, this Bible book appears to be chock full of radical leftist socialist ideas. I better get the city librarian on the horn; I shudder to think what would happen if my daughter ever saw that. Oh the horror! *100% complete snark)