I've had to update the settings on this post so that ONLY PAID SUBSCRIBERS CAN NOW COMMENT. This is due to an influx of unhelpful and rude comments being made by people who are not part of the community.
Very insightful post (and presentation to Christians for Kamala). One of my underlying concerns is that over now nearly 40 years in ordained ministry (ELCA and interim work with Episcopalians and UMC), I've seen liberal Protestants largely cede their voices in the public square to "evangelicals." How do we call not only those in our pews to the kind of Christianity the writer of Ephesians challenges "us" to live, but to the wider political cultures in which we live? When I finished reading the Ephesian text last Sunday to a group primarily women UMC folk in lower Dorchester County, MD. the comment from one of them was that "we all need to hear that message these days."
I agree with you entirely on this point, Diana. And just as evangelicals seem to rarely flip, so the press rarely seems to take its focus off of the evangelicals. I remember very well how it was in 2006, when a group of us walked the Phoenix Affirmations across the country (and you graciously spoke at our final event in DC). Our experience walking through Kansas City speaks for most of that walk: The day we walked through KC, religion made front-page news in the Kansa City Star, but it wasn't about progressive Christians speaking out for peace, inclusion, and a more generous faith. It was an article about how Jimmy Bakker had been out of prison for 2 years and was doing great in Branson! Within days we determined that progressively-oriented Christians can't rely on the media to tell the Christian story the way we think it should be told. We would need to BECOME the media ... which led to the creation of Darkwood Brew - the world's first interactive, broadcast-quality online television program (in which you graciously appeared). I'm glad that you have The Cottage in addition to your writings and appearances. You have BECOME a part of the media, telling the story. Good on you! BTW, isn't it interesting how, 20 years ago, you and a number of us already thought there was a 4-alarm fire going on with respect to Christian Nationalism and felt that something dramatic needed to happen or the nation would be in sore shape years from then (hence, creation of the Phoenix Affirmations and cross-country walk)? I wish we hadn't been right about that! Those twelve Phoenix Affirmations still have mighty legs, though. :-)
I think in 2016 more evangelicals were in the persuadable category. If only Hillary Clinton had embraced her husband’s “safe, legal, and rare” line, that might have been enough to make the difference. As it was, those who had been propagandized over decades to elevate abortion above all other issues felt like they had no choice.
Now, I agree that too much of Evangelicalism has mutated into a hardened identity of orange idolatry, and for that reason among others many people like me who might have called ourselves Evangelicals in 2016 no longer claim that term (and in some cases have moved to other churches). The number of persuadable Evangelicals today is indeed small, but it didn’t have to be that way.
I agree for the most part, Diana. That's why I tend to refer to the "the ultra right-wing evangelicals" ... the ones who tend to be the "Christian nationalists" and who are more often than not adherents to the MAGA movement.
I'm curious about the idea that "Trying to flip the evangelical vote is probably a waste of time and money."
The virtue of decency as well as MAGA's attempt to normalize rape, adultery, blasphemy, felons, defamers, etc. (whether they believe they are doing it or not) has come up in media circles. I think it is important to view MAGA not as republican. It is something quite different from conservatism. I call it Dark Conservatism. It is conservatism that has slid off into the shadows and is purely political and non-governing. Dark in that it casts shadows on truth or denies it completely.
If one accepts the notion that the conservatism evangelicals have always beloved is now gone, which I have argued forever, do you think that leaves enough of an opening for that 2% evangelical vote change?
We always speak truth to our neighbors (as it says in Ephesians). But we do so for the sake of truth, not vote flipping! And no, I don't think many evangelical votes - not even 2% - will change. For more than 20 years, major evangelical leaders have tried to do so and failed.
TRUTH. The old Republican Party anchored itself on truth. MAGA does not. It relies on conspiracies. I have heard my evangelical friends comment in their posts about "this is for real! Not just another conspiracy!" Then, of course, it turned out to be just another conspiracy.
This fascinates me. It is 2 Thess. 2. There is a segment of the church under the delusion that results from not loving the truth.
The "WAKEUP" moment for evangelicals will be when they realize they are no longer on the side of truth. Their advocacy for abortion, for example, resulted in 200,000 additional abortions.
I've had to update the settings on this post so that ONLY PAID SUBSCRIBERS CAN NOW COMMENT. This is due to an influx of unhelpful and rude comments being made by people who are not part of the community.
THE CHRISTIANS FOR KAMALA folks CHANGED THE LINK!!!!!!! Here's one that should work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-boeKMRHKaI
Got it and you did a great job. 😀
Very insightful post (and presentation to Christians for Kamala). One of my underlying concerns is that over now nearly 40 years in ordained ministry (ELCA and interim work with Episcopalians and UMC), I've seen liberal Protestants largely cede their voices in the public square to "evangelicals." How do we call not only those in our pews to the kind of Christianity the writer of Ephesians challenges "us" to live, but to the wider political cultures in which we live? When I finished reading the Ephesian text last Sunday to a group primarily women UMC folk in lower Dorchester County, MD. the comment from one of them was that "we all need to hear that message these days."
I agree with you entirely on this point, Diana. And just as evangelicals seem to rarely flip, so the press rarely seems to take its focus off of the evangelicals. I remember very well how it was in 2006, when a group of us walked the Phoenix Affirmations across the country (and you graciously spoke at our final event in DC). Our experience walking through Kansas City speaks for most of that walk: The day we walked through KC, religion made front-page news in the Kansa City Star, but it wasn't about progressive Christians speaking out for peace, inclusion, and a more generous faith. It was an article about how Jimmy Bakker had been out of prison for 2 years and was doing great in Branson! Within days we determined that progressively-oriented Christians can't rely on the media to tell the Christian story the way we think it should be told. We would need to BECOME the media ... which led to the creation of Darkwood Brew - the world's first interactive, broadcast-quality online television program (in which you graciously appeared). I'm glad that you have The Cottage in addition to your writings and appearances. You have BECOME a part of the media, telling the story. Good on you! BTW, isn't it interesting how, 20 years ago, you and a number of us already thought there was a 4-alarm fire going on with respect to Christian Nationalism and felt that something dramatic needed to happen or the nation would be in sore shape years from then (hence, creation of the Phoenix Affirmations and cross-country walk)? I wish we hadn't been right about that! Those twelve Phoenix Affirmations still have mighty legs, though. :-)
I think in 2016 more evangelicals were in the persuadable category. If only Hillary Clinton had embraced her husband’s “safe, legal, and rare” line, that might have been enough to make the difference. As it was, those who had been propagandized over decades to elevate abortion above all other issues felt like they had no choice.
Now, I agree that too much of Evangelicalism has mutated into a hardened identity of orange idolatry, and for that reason among others many people like me who might have called ourselves Evangelicals in 2016 no longer claim that term (and in some cases have moved to other churches). The number of persuadable Evangelicals today is indeed small, but it didn’t have to be that way.
Great analysis. And it’s hopeful. Thank you.
Great essay! A learning experience
I don't think the typical person in America even knows there are Protestants who aren't evangelicals!
I agree for the most part, Diana. That's why I tend to refer to the "the ultra right-wing evangelicals" ... the ones who tend to be the "Christian nationalists" and who are more often than not adherents to the MAGA movement.
#1 oxymoron is “Christian nationalism”…The Kingdom , the Power and the Glory (/Andreason) is great!
Great article. Thank you for your insights and data.
You said some people believe doubt is evil? I'm 73 and have never heard this. Is there a biblical verse that is used to justify this?
Thank you for writing this.
I'm curious about the idea that "Trying to flip the evangelical vote is probably a waste of time and money."
The virtue of decency as well as MAGA's attempt to normalize rape, adultery, blasphemy, felons, defamers, etc. (whether they believe they are doing it or not) has come up in media circles. I think it is important to view MAGA not as republican. It is something quite different from conservatism. I call it Dark Conservatism. It is conservatism that has slid off into the shadows and is purely political and non-governing. Dark in that it casts shadows on truth or denies it completely.
If one accepts the notion that the conservatism evangelicals have always beloved is now gone, which I have argued forever, do you think that leaves enough of an opening for that 2% evangelical vote change?
We always speak truth to our neighbors (as it says in Ephesians). But we do so for the sake of truth, not vote flipping! And no, I don't think many evangelical votes - not even 2% - will change. For more than 20 years, major evangelical leaders have tried to do so and failed.
TRUTH. The old Republican Party anchored itself on truth. MAGA does not. It relies on conspiracies. I have heard my evangelical friends comment in their posts about "this is for real! Not just another conspiracy!" Then, of course, it turned out to be just another conspiracy.
This fascinates me. It is 2 Thess. 2. There is a segment of the church under the delusion that results from not loving the truth.
The "WAKEUP" moment for evangelicals will be when they realize they are no longer on the side of truth. Their advocacy for abortion, for example, resulted in 200,000 additional abortions.
It was MJ’s narrow view on Gaza that got me - I haven’t watched in months.
So thank you for hanging in
I am SO glad I read down to the end! I was feeling discouraged and frustrated and then…breath of fresh air and hope! Thank you!!
Would those marginal Christians be what John Shelby Spong called the "Church Alumni Association"?
No