What grieves me is that I think conservatively and am an orthodox evangelical Christian, but these self descriptions do not match up with "conservative political evangelicals" you've described. I know Sojourners, or at least as I knew it during its beginnings, is/was representative of an evangelic Christianity with which I felt comfortable. But I am an evangelical Catholic. You're a church historian, so I expect you understand my reference. And even within that church family I feel stuck between a version theologically and often politically closer to to the brand you describe and a version which banners Evangelical as the first part of its name, but within which largely in word and practice is all progressive politics (on issues I largely believe are consistent with my Christian beliefs), but theologically has rendered its name meaningless. I am well enough educated to understand how much traditional beliefs about the Bible need on-going fresh examination, and I stress that in my teaching and writing. But I have not found that to essentially undermine my orthodoxy. If anything, it has made that orthodoxy more understandable, fresh and relevant. But I feel alone in the wilderness, crying. My only hope lies in the shining Biblical examples who felt that way, but clung to their God's Promises rather than actually calling it quits.
I’m so glad you wrote about this. As someone who was raised in Evangie culture in the 70s, I was immersed in church and right wing politics. I Went with my mom to a Phyllis Shapley rally, ( yes in the Bay Area,CA ), youth groups, Francis Schaefer conferences etc.. and actually thought I was getting a broader open Christian world view. Fast forward past all my years teaching biblestudies and homeschooling our kids and church culture up to my ears, I’ve been spending the last 12 years deconstructing and rebuilding a view of God. I’m grateful that I was able to find thoughtful writers that showed me with love a better way to read scripture. I was helped so much to learn more about How there were other forces at work behind the scenes that had different motivations then many that I saw weekly trying to live out what Jesus taught. It was all the air I was breathing. I’m grateful and sad too for years that I spent in churches that held back women. I’m sad for so much that I didn’t know. I appreciate articles like this that don’t demonize people caught in a community of unhealthy air. It usually takes something personal in my experience to make us look at what we are believing. For me it was my kids coming home from college and recommending books from authors I had never heard of in my bubble. LBrian Mc Claren, Rob Bell and Barbara Brown Taylor, Frankie Schaefer helped shift my perspective. My teachers today who continually stretch me out of my comfort zone are my favorites.
If we are going to learn how to speak with people from a completely different culture we do well to learn from those who came out of that culture. I agree that the news doesn’t often seem to be giving the public a broader view of what evangelical culture is. I am on my journey now to stay committed to being able to speak with love to those who I fiercely disagree with and also share new things that I’m learning about this great crazy world. It’s really an exciting time.
I hope I never go back to a small pool of thoughts and I’ve been committed to read more widely ever since. And freedom is coming more
This is so very true and I grew up in it all! I am still a Christian, however I don't Believe God intended Hate, Racism, Rape, Bigotry and for Christian beliefs to have influence in Politics besides Raising your Hand to Tell the Truth the whole Truth and Nothing But the Truth and even that has Nothing to do with God! Telling the Truth is Free Will and you should be able to do that as a Human Being and as a Good person. Right is Right and Wrong is Wrong! No one should ever push their religious beliefs onto others, Ever! To each it's own! We are all here together. We should all Love one another. We need to find Common Ground and meet some where in the middle. Compromise is always the answer. Hate has no Place on Earth! War is Never the Answer! Peace be unto everyone. If only everyone felt this way. Love and Light to everyone.
Great article… my personal thoughts, this movement has reached its peak with Trump being the last ditch effort. I believe this since Trump is totally void of moral fiber and it’s obvious to everyone but his cult-like followers.
Leaders in the past that evangelicals rallied around at least had some type of religious or moral aspect associated with them… not the case with Trump.
So any religious person putting their faith in Trump will quickly find themselves without any solid foundation in time.
So I see it as a last stand to grasp for power they are losing. Yes, Trump made a big impact and brought on a big divide in our nation by actively making each side an enemy…. But I see this flaming out over time because it’s not morally sustainable.
With Trump, you have no moral ground to stand on and they know it… so the things most religious conservatives stand on is his anti abortion stance and Supreme Court nominations. And he did pick three new conservatives to the court, but it’s important to know that these three conservative judges are no way close to Trump moral bankruptcy.
In fact, I see them making surprising arguments in the future that are more sound and balanced than even the liberals would think possible.
In short, I see our nation… and world, ready for something new as we slowly leave this post Trump bankrupted morality.
In fact, I believe our nation will see a new type of “revival” coming from the most unexpected areas… not the American church, but rather the younger generations who are crying out for truth, justice and a new spirituality.
I agree that the article reads as if the facts within are recent occurrences, which is definitely not the case based upon my awareness of it in the early 1970s. However, my recollection was that the movement and various sub movements were relatively passive, innocent and harmless, which is definitely not the case today. Today there’s more wingeing, more self-righteous anger, and even less ability to discern core Christian values. More importantly, today a more extensive and aggressive stance towards political power and even raw power as seen through the presence of guns in some cases.
Very powerful article. I have shared it with The Clergy Project Facebook page (TCP is a support group for people in ministry who no longer believe in god. (I was an evangelical for 46 years, and a missionary in Europe for several years.)
Diana, do you think there is a fissure developing in the underbelly of the Evangelical monolith with the more recent exposure of all manner of corruption, particularly involving extensive levels of abuse? I'm thinking writers (inside the community) like Rachael Denhollander, Sarah McDugal, Sheila Wray Gregoire and particularly investigative journalist Julie Roys? It feels the archaic patriarchal structure is slowly crumbling through this vein. Your thoughts?
When I was listening to the latest Lesson with you and Tripp I think you mentioned the New Times Article and your reaction to the article. Then, I read your response your “New Old Time Religion” article. Those things really helped me put things together. When I really looked into the Trump phenomenon and the prophecies about him I kept thinking this sounds familiar. When I realized that the church had been co-opted since the 1970’s, being force fed all these ideas, told what to read and what to think and who to vote for, I went into deconstruction big time. With the class and reading Freeing Jesus, I think I am finding my way more and more and I just to continue to pursue clear thinking more and more. But believe me, when I realized what had happened to me it was so shocking. But the thing about is I was these concerns but just kept trying the same thing. Anyway, your article was confirming and challenging and I’m glad for it
Robert P.Jones’ research has shown the politico-religious divide now setting up an election “we-they” dichotomy in which White-Evangelical-Racism under the banner of the “Trumpian- Republican Party” politic is the “out side group” and the Liberal-Democrat-Integrationists are the challenging opposition. Jones’ research in his book “White Too Long” is a must read.
I thought the same thing when I read the NYT article, really? But those journalists are far removed and believe the separation of church and state is actively engaged across American culture, it is not in Christian evangelicalism or in many mainline denominations. Please submit an OP Ed to NYT. Please, your insight and historical context are desperately needed.
It goes back even further. It goes back before the Civil War to the justification of slavery and the superiority of whites to protect economic and political power and their way of life.
Please God no!!! I've been there, was raised there, have slowly grown out of there. I've watched the rot continue all my life. I now am a pastor in a very small rural parish and I can see some of those thought patterns in a few of my people. I do my best to starve it, and avoid feeding it. I have spent time outside the church community, having been thrown out. I am not sure if I can stay sometimes.
Do you really think that Elisabeth Dias and Ruth Graham--veteran religion reporters--don't know what they're talking about? I grew up Southern Baptist in the Jim Crow South, and am certainly familiar with the Religious Right and its history, but what they're reporting on is genuinely new--a complete fusion of Christian faith and partisanship such that the party isn't a vehicle for pursuing faith-based issues--the party is now the faith itself.
Incredibly glad you responded to this NYT article. It made me nauseous even though I am well aware of what's happening. Your understanding about this movement's history needs to be communicated widely, especially in liberal churches! And you are right--the evangelical/political right have been organizing for years. I can imagine sometime in the future calling myself a "follower of the Way"--I don't want to be associated with a belief system which is so limited and fearful.
What grieves me is that I think conservatively and am an orthodox evangelical Christian, but these self descriptions do not match up with "conservative political evangelicals" you've described. I know Sojourners, or at least as I knew it during its beginnings, is/was representative of an evangelic Christianity with which I felt comfortable. But I am an evangelical Catholic. You're a church historian, so I expect you understand my reference. And even within that church family I feel stuck between a version theologically and often politically closer to to the brand you describe and a version which banners Evangelical as the first part of its name, but within which largely in word and practice is all progressive politics (on issues I largely believe are consistent with my Christian beliefs), but theologically has rendered its name meaningless. I am well enough educated to understand how much traditional beliefs about the Bible need on-going fresh examination, and I stress that in my teaching and writing. But I have not found that to essentially undermine my orthodoxy. If anything, it has made that orthodoxy more understandable, fresh and relevant. But I feel alone in the wilderness, crying. My only hope lies in the shining Biblical examples who felt that way, but clung to their God's Promises rather than actually calling it quits.
Diana, sending ongoing respect & support for your particular scholarly wisdom for this point in time. Please keep Having Your Say. This just out in the Boston Globe, related to it all. https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/04/09/metro/crowdfunding-haters/?p1=StaffPage
I’m so glad you wrote about this. As someone who was raised in Evangie culture in the 70s, I was immersed in church and right wing politics. I Went with my mom to a Phyllis Shapley rally, ( yes in the Bay Area,CA ), youth groups, Francis Schaefer conferences etc.. and actually thought I was getting a broader open Christian world view. Fast forward past all my years teaching biblestudies and homeschooling our kids and church culture up to my ears, I’ve been spending the last 12 years deconstructing and rebuilding a view of God. I’m grateful that I was able to find thoughtful writers that showed me with love a better way to read scripture. I was helped so much to learn more about How there were other forces at work behind the scenes that had different motivations then many that I saw weekly trying to live out what Jesus taught. It was all the air I was breathing. I’m grateful and sad too for years that I spent in churches that held back women. I’m sad for so much that I didn’t know. I appreciate articles like this that don’t demonize people caught in a community of unhealthy air. It usually takes something personal in my experience to make us look at what we are believing. For me it was my kids coming home from college and recommending books from authors I had never heard of in my bubble. LBrian Mc Claren, Rob Bell and Barbara Brown Taylor, Frankie Schaefer helped shift my perspective. My teachers today who continually stretch me out of my comfort zone are my favorites.
If we are going to learn how to speak with people from a completely different culture we do well to learn from those who came out of that culture. I agree that the news doesn’t often seem to be giving the public a broader view of what evangelical culture is. I am on my journey now to stay committed to being able to speak with love to those who I fiercely disagree with and also share new things that I’m learning about this great crazy world. It’s really an exciting time.
I hope I never go back to a small pool of thoughts and I’ve been committed to read more widely ever since. And freedom is coming more
Each day.
This is so very true and I grew up in it all! I am still a Christian, however I don't Believe God intended Hate, Racism, Rape, Bigotry and for Christian beliefs to have influence in Politics besides Raising your Hand to Tell the Truth the whole Truth and Nothing But the Truth and even that has Nothing to do with God! Telling the Truth is Free Will and you should be able to do that as a Human Being and as a Good person. Right is Right and Wrong is Wrong! No one should ever push their religious beliefs onto others, Ever! To each it's own! We are all here together. We should all Love one another. We need to find Common Ground and meet some where in the middle. Compromise is always the answer. Hate has no Place on Earth! War is Never the Answer! Peace be unto everyone. If only everyone felt this way. Love and Light to everyone.
Great article… my personal thoughts, this movement has reached its peak with Trump being the last ditch effort. I believe this since Trump is totally void of moral fiber and it’s obvious to everyone but his cult-like followers.
Leaders in the past that evangelicals rallied around at least had some type of religious or moral aspect associated with them… not the case with Trump.
So any religious person putting their faith in Trump will quickly find themselves without any solid foundation in time.
So I see it as a last stand to grasp for power they are losing. Yes, Trump made a big impact and brought on a big divide in our nation by actively making each side an enemy…. But I see this flaming out over time because it’s not morally sustainable.
With Trump, you have no moral ground to stand on and they know it… so the things most religious conservatives stand on is his anti abortion stance and Supreme Court nominations. And he did pick three new conservatives to the court, but it’s important to know that these three conservative judges are no way close to Trump moral bankruptcy.
In fact, I see them making surprising arguments in the future that are more sound and balanced than even the liberals would think possible.
In short, I see our nation… and world, ready for something new as we slowly leave this post Trump bankrupted morality.
In fact, I believe our nation will see a new type of “revival” coming from the most unexpected areas… not the American church, but rather the younger generations who are crying out for truth, justice and a new spirituality.
This is ripe for the Spirit of God to seed?
I agree that the article reads as if the facts within are recent occurrences, which is definitely not the case based upon my awareness of it in the early 1970s. However, my recollection was that the movement and various sub movements were relatively passive, innocent and harmless, which is definitely not the case today. Today there’s more wingeing, more self-righteous anger, and even less ability to discern core Christian values. More importantly, today a more extensive and aggressive stance towards political power and even raw power as seen through the presence of guns in some cases.
Very powerful article. I have shared it with The Clergy Project Facebook page (TCP is a support group for people in ministry who no longer believe in god. (I was an evangelical for 46 years, and a missionary in Europe for several years.)
Diana, do you think there is a fissure developing in the underbelly of the Evangelical monolith with the more recent exposure of all manner of corruption, particularly involving extensive levels of abuse? I'm thinking writers (inside the community) like Rachael Denhollander, Sarah McDugal, Sheila Wray Gregoire and particularly investigative journalist Julie Roys? It feels the archaic patriarchal structure is slowly crumbling through this vein. Your thoughts?
When I was listening to the latest Lesson with you and Tripp I think you mentioned the New Times Article and your reaction to the article. Then, I read your response your “New Old Time Religion” article. Those things really helped me put things together. When I really looked into the Trump phenomenon and the prophecies about him I kept thinking this sounds familiar. When I realized that the church had been co-opted since the 1970’s, being force fed all these ideas, told what to read and what to think and who to vote for, I went into deconstruction big time. With the class and reading Freeing Jesus, I think I am finding my way more and more and I just to continue to pursue clear thinking more and more. But believe me, when I realized what had happened to me it was so shocking. But the thing about is I was these concerns but just kept trying the same thing. Anyway, your article was confirming and challenging and I’m glad for it
Robert P.Jones’ research has shown the politico-religious divide now setting up an election “we-they” dichotomy in which White-Evangelical-Racism under the banner of the “Trumpian- Republican Party” politic is the “out side group” and the Liberal-Democrat-Integrationists are the challenging opposition. Jones’ research in his book “White Too Long” is a must read.
I thought the same thing when I read the NYT article, really? But those journalists are far removed and believe the separation of church and state is actively engaged across American culture, it is not in Christian evangelicalism or in many mainline denominations. Please submit an OP Ed to NYT. Please, your insight and historical context are desperately needed.
It goes back even further. It goes back before the Civil War to the justification of slavery and the superiority of whites to protect economic and political power and their way of life.
Your response should be sent to the NY Times. Maybe they might learn there's more to their article than what they printed.
Please God no!!! I've been there, was raised there, have slowly grown out of there. I've watched the rot continue all my life. I now am a pastor in a very small rural parish and I can see some of those thought patterns in a few of my people. I do my best to starve it, and avoid feeding it. I have spent time outside the church community, having been thrown out. I am not sure if I can stay sometimes.
Do you really think that Elisabeth Dias and Ruth Graham--veteran religion reporters--don't know what they're talking about? I grew up Southern Baptist in the Jim Crow South, and am certainly familiar with the Religious Right and its history, but what they're reporting on is genuinely new--a complete fusion of Christian faith and partisanship such that the party isn't a vehicle for pursuing faith-based issues--the party is now the faith itself.
Incredibly glad you responded to this NYT article. It made me nauseous even though I am well aware of what's happening. Your understanding about this movement's history needs to be communicated widely, especially in liberal churches! And you are right--the evangelical/political right have been organizing for years. I can imagine sometime in the future calling myself a "follower of the Way"--I don't want to be associated with a belief system which is so limited and fearful.