Seems mostly about trees, not necessarily dead, but deeply rooted, holding ground together, offering limbs for homes, shade underneath, the very symbol of life. And even in death it can give so much: food for the earth, sturdy beams and planks for homes, bulwarks against shifting land, even tools, weapons with which to hunt for food, fire for cooking and warmth, and art waiting to be released. Never was it meant for nailing and hanging a naked body. Travesty, that. Except in this instance rescued when it becomes the cradle of Grace, the throne of Victory, the sign of Hope and Divine Love. A Curse transformed into a Blessing for all the nations. The wood is a gift, and the effort to exploit it for the worst of human depravity has been rendered futile by him who uttered in agony a cry of victory beginning with the words, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?!"
The image of the cross in the green woods seemed to be pointing me along the way to a path on the right. It spoke to me: "Don't stop here. There's more along the road." I've been stuck in a grief caused by "church dysfunction" and afraid to move on. This image gave me hope that God has more in mind for me as I venture on down a new path with new companions
Like many of us here, I was confused by Jesus’ reference to green and dry wood, so I did a little research and found this commentary:
As terrible as the events of Jesus’ crucifixion were, he knew that the destruction of Jerusalem itself lay ahead, and he could not stop it. He had warned of what was coming, both for him and for Jerusalem. He had called for repentance and wept for the city. When his pleas were not heeded, however, he joined himself to the plight of those who suffer the ravages of violence (especially women and children), dying with criminals on a cross.
His lament is a call for us to see that our only hope is to trust in God’s faithfulness. Apart from repentance and commitment to the kingdom of God there is no hope for an end to violence and suffering. The suffering of the innocent is an indictment of the institutions that cause such suffering, and a call to turn from our sinful inclinations and accept the new order of God’s mercy.
The song “Greenwood” is an exquisite illumination on this teaching. I am grateful to you, Don Plummer, for pointing me (and others) to it. I had not heard this song before. I believe that Jesus now joins in the lamentations connected to the tremendous suffering in Gaza and Ukraine.
Jesus might be lamenting the city, but I do not believe for a second that he knew of the coming war c. 70. 0nly very conservative evangelicals believe that - and whatever commentary says it would not be a source I’d trust.
Frankly, I’m puzzled why people are treating a poetic turn of phrase as a puzzle that must be solved. I’m deeply satisfied simply letting the words wash over me, taking me not to research but to exquisite wonder.
I have a lot of trouble with the glorification of the cross. It was Rome’s instrument of torture, and the crucifixion was a political act, not a theological necessity!
I, too, have trouble glorifying an instrument/tool of torture, brutality and sure death.
That said, I suspect the early church, focusing on the good news of Jesus's resurrection (and therefore the resurrection for those who followed "the Way"), chose the cross and set the tone for it's use due to Jesus's very real death/martyrdom on the cross.
Please note the "I suspect." I know a lot about marketing and branding and "messaging" but not a lot about theology.
What quickly came to my mind is James Cones’ “The Cross and the Lynching Tree.” I’m curious if you will explore that in your sermon. I think we have a lot to learn about suffering from those whose forebears suffered such indignity as lynching.
Yes--Peter Yarrow did write a song that uses, as a refrain, the green wood-dry wood phrase from Luke 23. It was titled, well, "Greenwood." It's an anti-war song.
And while searching for the song, I had another realization: we also use wood to craft instruments of music, from violins and cellos to guitars to wind instruments to pianos--instruments that celebrate life and create beauty.
Here's the song. The notes to this video suggest Pete Seeger may have been the writer of the song, but all the sources I can find name Yarrow as the songwriter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3P-SPqinL8
Of all that I read here today, I will carry this partial verse with me as a reminder of what it means to journey with Jesus and my companions:
“When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly.” 1 Peter 2:23
"Now in our altar- vessels stored, Is the sweet Vintage of our Lord". "How kind time is, altering space so nothing stays wrong; and light, more new light, always arrives". Thank you for these reminders that, although there is loss and grief, there is also joy and renewal.
I look around my house and think of the "dead" wood resurrected to create this shelter, the chair I sit on, the table were we gather. New fruit. The wood lives on carrying ancient history, stories, matter of the cosmos, passing through generations until its eventual decay or destruction by fire, the elements. The organic remains, the ash, wait to once again birth new life and the evolution of creation continues, like The Christ. Always present in some form, not readily seen.
I rewrote the Old Rugged Cross when I was in seminary as an assignment to update the theology of some of the "old favourites". The Gerard Manley Hopkins poem resonated with me, I couldn't help but think of the great Billie Holiday's Strange Fruit.
My line this morning," We are witnesses to all that he (JESUS ) did both in Judea and in Jerusalem."
Jesus chose in the garden during prayer to follow his 'HEAVENLY FATHER .'I struggle with the violence too and the violence of Rome in that day, as I do with the misuse and violence of today against creation. The story of Jesus and what he was willing to do gives me hope. And may we stay green and help others and our resources stay green is a payer for today.
I, too, struggle with the glorification of the cross.
Words that have stuck with me from the quoted scriptures - green. (makes me think of Hildegard of Bingen), dry, death, life, righteousness, healed
Thought from the images: a cross can break, too
From the second poem: how kind time is ... nothing stays wrong ... light, more new light, always arrived
Did those mourning and waiting at the foot of the cross know that new light always arrives? Do we remember that?
Thank you for these meditation prompts
Seems mostly about trees, not necessarily dead, but deeply rooted, holding ground together, offering limbs for homes, shade underneath, the very symbol of life. And even in death it can give so much: food for the earth, sturdy beams and planks for homes, bulwarks against shifting land, even tools, weapons with which to hunt for food, fire for cooking and warmth, and art waiting to be released. Never was it meant for nailing and hanging a naked body. Travesty, that. Except in this instance rescued when it becomes the cradle of Grace, the throne of Victory, the sign of Hope and Divine Love. A Curse transformed into a Blessing for all the nations. The wood is a gift, and the effort to exploit it for the worst of human depravity has been rendered futile by him who uttered in agony a cry of victory beginning with the words, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?!"
The image of the cross in the green woods seemed to be pointing me along the way to a path on the right. It spoke to me: "Don't stop here. There's more along the road." I've been stuck in a grief caused by "church dysfunction" and afraid to move on. This image gave me hope that God has more in mind for me as I venture on down a new path with new companions
Like many of us here, I was confused by Jesus’ reference to green and dry wood, so I did a little research and found this commentary:
As terrible as the events of Jesus’ crucifixion were, he knew that the destruction of Jerusalem itself lay ahead, and he could not stop it. He had warned of what was coming, both for him and for Jerusalem. He had called for repentance and wept for the city. When his pleas were not heeded, however, he joined himself to the plight of those who suffer the ravages of violence (especially women and children), dying with criminals on a cross.
His lament is a call for us to see that our only hope is to trust in God’s faithfulness. Apart from repentance and commitment to the kingdom of God there is no hope for an end to violence and suffering. The suffering of the innocent is an indictment of the institutions that cause such suffering, and a call to turn from our sinful inclinations and accept the new order of God’s mercy.
The song “Greenwood” is an exquisite illumination on this teaching. I am grateful to you, Don Plummer, for pointing me (and others) to it. I had not heard this song before. I believe that Jesus now joins in the lamentations connected to the tremendous suffering in Gaza and Ukraine.
Jesus might be lamenting the city, but I do not believe for a second that he knew of the coming war c. 70. 0nly very conservative evangelicals believe that - and whatever commentary says it would not be a source I’d trust.
Frankly, I’m puzzled why people are treating a poetic turn of phrase as a puzzle that must be solved. I’m deeply satisfied simply letting the words wash over me, taking me not to research but to exquisite wonder.
Happy birthday Diana! The verse from Luke stuck with me today, I will journal on that in my morning quiet time.
Shrinemont!!
I have a lot of trouble with the glorification of the cross. It was Rome’s instrument of torture, and the crucifixion was a political act, not a theological necessity!
I, too, have trouble glorifying an instrument/tool of torture, brutality and sure death.
That said, I suspect the early church, focusing on the good news of Jesus's resurrection (and therefore the resurrection for those who followed "the Way"), chose the cross and set the tone for it's use due to Jesus's very real death/martyrdom on the cross.
Please note the "I suspect." I know a lot about marketing and branding and "messaging" but not a lot about theology.
What quickly came to my mind is James Cones’ “The Cross and the Lynching Tree.” I’m curious if you will explore that in your sermon. I think we have a lot to learn about suffering from those whose forebears suffered such indignity as lynching.
RE: the lunching tree.....Me, too: Strange (and awful....sigh) Fruit indeed.
Yes--Peter Yarrow did write a song that uses, as a refrain, the green wood-dry wood phrase from Luke 23. It was titled, well, "Greenwood." It's an anti-war song.
And while searching for the song, I had another realization: we also use wood to craft instruments of music, from violins and cellos to guitars to wind instruments to pianos--instruments that celebrate life and create beauty.
Here's the song. The notes to this video suggest Pete Seeger may have been the writer of the song, but all the sources I can find name Yarrow as the songwriter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3P-SPqinL8
I do not understand Jesus admonition in Luke 23 passage. What does he mean by green and dry wood?
Sit with the not understanding
Of all that I read here today, I will carry this partial verse with me as a reminder of what it means to journey with Jesus and my companions:
“When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly.” 1 Peter 2:23
"Now in our altar- vessels stored, Is the sweet Vintage of our Lord". "How kind time is, altering space so nothing stays wrong; and light, more new light, always arrives". Thank you for these reminders that, although there is loss and grief, there is also joy and renewal.
"Terrible fruit"--Hopkins' line is echoed in Billie Holiday's "Strange Fruit," isn't it?
Happy Birthday, Diana! 🎂🎈I love the choice you made in your title for today. Crossings: Wood.
I look around my house and think of the "dead" wood resurrected to create this shelter, the chair I sit on, the table were we gather. New fruit. The wood lives on carrying ancient history, stories, matter of the cosmos, passing through generations until its eventual decay or destruction by fire, the elements. The organic remains, the ash, wait to once again birth new life and the evolution of creation continues, like The Christ. Always present in some form, not readily seen.
I rewrote the Old Rugged Cross when I was in seminary as an assignment to update the theology of some of the "old favourites". The Gerard Manley Hopkins poem resonated with me, I couldn't help but think of the great Billie Holiday's Strange Fruit.
I wrote a similar comment about the Hopkins line before I read yours. Yes, strange fruit, terrible fruit.
My line this morning," We are witnesses to all that he (JESUS ) did both in Judea and in Jerusalem."
Jesus chose in the garden during prayer to follow his 'HEAVENLY FATHER .'I struggle with the violence too and the violence of Rome in that day, as I do with the misuse and violence of today against creation. The story of Jesus and what he was willing to do gives me hope. And may we stay green and help others and our resources stay green is a payer for today.