I watch an evangelical church virtually on Sundays. The pastor is wonderful, but he has vowed to avoid any discussion of politics. I suspect he is a never Trumper at heart, but I suspect there are some, or even many, MAGA pre-critical naivité types on the congregation.
Yes to talking about religion and politics in church because the discord and violent way of being are undermining community. Preaching Feb 5 from Jesus' words to be and live salt and light in the world which will call us to engage in the conversations for the good of all creation. Thanks for the info and the nudge for this retired UMC pastor.
I just stumbled upon this. I am so glad this discourse happens. Thank you Diana, and thank you all. As a German who grew up under East German suppression of religion coming to the US was such a culture shock. I just had no experience with unchecked Christianity. I felt that there were religious groups which were triggering my trauma with totalitarianism. I was longing for freedom of expression but could not grasp the freedom they fought for. It took my breath and at some point my voice away (Imagine, I got silent in the "country of the free" while speaking out in my youth behind the Wall.)
So I was avoiding this discourse because it felt so painful. Because, well, I also came from a very religious and thus I guess conservative home. But I could not find a home on either side in American Christianity. I was at a loss where to even start.
That was probably good for many reasons, says the existential philosopher, but it also felt debilitating.
But friends, don't get me wrong, totalitarian tendencies are not reserved for one tribe alone. We can see it just as well on the other side of the isle when certain ideas and leaders become more important than the messy discourse. And we can see it as well in a type of scientism, which has almost wiped out centuries of wisdom and intuitive learning, and thus plays an important counterpart in the anti scientific stance in so much of the Christian Right today.
Karl Jaspers, the German psychiatrist and philosopher once came up with the dialectic of science superstition and science idealization. Both are dangerous and feed of each other. I think the same might be true for the religious fringes on both sides of the isles.
Thank you so much for this inspiration and for letting me try out some thoughts here!
As a pastor (ELCA) who has talked about politics in every congregation I've served, and who urges other leaders to do the same now that I serve as a consultant for progressive mainline churches across the state of Minnesota, I am delighted to have both this theological reflection and its accompanying/supportive data so brilliantly summed up in one place. The photos, as has been mentioned by others, are appalling, yet additional fodder for important conversations. Thank you, Diana, for creating and sharing this. While additional dialogue between esteemed public theologians is essential and would certainly be enlightening, I am struck by a desire - going back to your previous post thanking those of us who are still 'showing up' - to gather sermons or Bible studies from clergy and faith leaders who are doing this good work, already, in little congregations across the country. Good preachers, good teachers, good small group leaders, etc., have been doing this for decades - with little to zero gratitude or recognition and most likely with more than just a few 'followers' unliking them. Thank you for your list: I have already highlighted this post and will continue to share it with anyone who will listen.
I love reading an intellectually sound dissection of this opaque issue. Thank you. I am going to remember some of the specifics you wrote about, which will allow me to defend & separate my faith from the imposters.
Thank you for putting out there what I have been saying for years and years and years. Not talking about politics and religion is one of the reasons we are in the god-awful mess in which we find ourselves. The organized church has taught us too dumb down the FACT that Jesus was a revolutionary character, following Jesus is not the same as saying one is a Christian. Saying it doesn't mean one is on the same path laid out by the words and actions of Christ as shared by those who knew him best and the people who surrounded him.
In your #2: consider replacing "don't like" with "don't agree with." As a believer in Jack Spong's christianity, I reallly LIKE (actually, love) many with whom I disagree. —Ed Lovern
Thank you for being open about this subject. I have been disappointed that religious/ political beliefs are avoided at a time when it is so important to disentangle them and figure out just what Jesus would do in our place.
These implications I think are very on target. I'm distressed as someone who grew up Southern Baptist, taught in one of the seminaries while it was being taken over by the Fundamentalists, went to another new alternative, "moderate" one, which now is being taken over! Historically, Baptists were some of the strongest advocates, even originators, of the idea of separation of church and state. But as soon as they got power in the South, then went the "way of all flesh" to impose their sectarian views on others, abandoning their principles that respected minorities--when they had been a minority. It's a very good point to recognize that criticism of a majority group in their overreach of power is not "persecution"!
I heard you talk about Heather Cox Richardson today at “ Southern Lights “. I see someone else suggested a conversation between the two of you, and I second this suggestion. Please consider it. In today’s column, you give us facts, figures, and questions. Your writing is honest, and open enough to let your readers think and grow. I rely on people like HCR and DBB to educate but also to show the hopeful way to a better tomorrow. Thank you, Diana!
I think that “white” is the operative word in white evangelicalism. Evangelicalism has a long heritage in positive social reform in our country, though you wouldn’t know it the way the label is used and abused nowadays in public discourse. Unfortunately, many Christian “evangelical” fellowship have become sanctuaries for reactionary political views and cultural prejudices.
I watch an evangelical church virtually on Sundays. The pastor is wonderful, but he has vowed to avoid any discussion of politics. I suspect he is a never Trumper at heart, but I suspect there are some, or even many, MAGA pre-critical naivité types on the congregation.
Yes to talking about religion and politics in church because the discord and violent way of being are undermining community. Preaching Feb 5 from Jesus' words to be and live salt and light in the world which will call us to engage in the conversations for the good of all creation. Thanks for the info and the nudge for this retired UMC pastor.
I just stumbled upon this. I am so glad this discourse happens. Thank you Diana, and thank you all. As a German who grew up under East German suppression of religion coming to the US was such a culture shock. I just had no experience with unchecked Christianity. I felt that there were religious groups which were triggering my trauma with totalitarianism. I was longing for freedom of expression but could not grasp the freedom they fought for. It took my breath and at some point my voice away (Imagine, I got silent in the "country of the free" while speaking out in my youth behind the Wall.)
So I was avoiding this discourse because it felt so painful. Because, well, I also came from a very religious and thus I guess conservative home. But I could not find a home on either side in American Christianity. I was at a loss where to even start.
That was probably good for many reasons, says the existential philosopher, but it also felt debilitating.
But friends, don't get me wrong, totalitarian tendencies are not reserved for one tribe alone. We can see it just as well on the other side of the isle when certain ideas and leaders become more important than the messy discourse. And we can see it as well in a type of scientism, which has almost wiped out centuries of wisdom and intuitive learning, and thus plays an important counterpart in the anti scientific stance in so much of the Christian Right today.
Karl Jaspers, the German psychiatrist and philosopher once came up with the dialectic of science superstition and science idealization. Both are dangerous and feed of each other. I think the same might be true for the religious fringes on both sides of the isles.
Thank you so much for this inspiration and for letting me try out some thoughts here!
May the spirit blow despite and inmidst of it.
As a pastor (ELCA) who has talked about politics in every congregation I've served, and who urges other leaders to do the same now that I serve as a consultant for progressive mainline churches across the state of Minnesota, I am delighted to have both this theological reflection and its accompanying/supportive data so brilliantly summed up in one place. The photos, as has been mentioned by others, are appalling, yet additional fodder for important conversations. Thank you, Diana, for creating and sharing this. While additional dialogue between esteemed public theologians is essential and would certainly be enlightening, I am struck by a desire - going back to your previous post thanking those of us who are still 'showing up' - to gather sermons or Bible studies from clergy and faith leaders who are doing this good work, already, in little congregations across the country. Good preachers, good teachers, good small group leaders, etc., have been doing this for decades - with little to zero gratitude or recognition and most likely with more than just a few 'followers' unliking them. Thank you for your list: I have already highlighted this post and will continue to share it with anyone who will listen.
The kind of political theology we need is the kind that cares more about people than about party - the kind that lives Jesus' teachings.
I love reading an intellectually sound dissection of this opaque issue. Thank you. I am going to remember some of the specifics you wrote about, which will allow me to defend & separate my faith from the imposters.
Thank you for putting out there what I have been saying for years and years and years. Not talking about politics and religion is one of the reasons we are in the god-awful mess in which we find ourselves. The organized church has taught us too dumb down the FACT that Jesus was a revolutionary character, following Jesus is not the same as saying one is a Christian. Saying it doesn't mean one is on the same path laid out by the words and actions of Christ as shared by those who knew him best and the people who surrounded him.
In your #2: consider replacing "don't like" with "don't agree with." As a believer in Jack Spong's christianity, I reallly LIKE (actually, love) many with whom I disagree. —Ed Lovern
Thank you for being open about this subject. I have been disappointed that religious/ political beliefs are avoided at a time when it is so important to disentangle them and figure out just what Jesus would do in our place.
These implications I think are very on target. I'm distressed as someone who grew up Southern Baptist, taught in one of the seminaries while it was being taken over by the Fundamentalists, went to another new alternative, "moderate" one, which now is being taken over! Historically, Baptists were some of the strongest advocates, even originators, of the idea of separation of church and state. But as soon as they got power in the South, then went the "way of all flesh" to impose their sectarian views on others, abandoning their principles that respected minorities--when they had been a minority. It's a very good point to recognize that criticism of a majority group in their overreach of power is not "persecution"!
Preach! This is one of the very best articles on religion and politics I have read. Thank you for your insights and your courage! Best, --Jo
I heard you talk about Heather Cox Richardson today at “ Southern Lights “. I see someone else suggested a conversation between the two of you, and I second this suggestion. Please consider it. In today’s column, you give us facts, figures, and questions. Your writing is honest, and open enough to let your readers think and grow. I rely on people like HCR and DBB to educate but also to show the hopeful way to a better tomorrow. Thank you, Diana!
Love the 2nd piece/poem
Very relevant
I think that “white” is the operative word in white evangelicalism. Evangelicalism has a long heritage in positive social reform in our country, though you wouldn’t know it the way the label is used and abused nowadays in public discourse. Unfortunately, many Christian “evangelical” fellowship have become sanctuaries for reactionary political views and cultural prejudices.
Yesterday I listened to Tripp's podcast Religion and Politics. I found both your and his discussion important.