Wow, you really hit a note with this. There are many nuggets of pure gold here. Amongst others bits, this section jumped out.
"Yet, nobody seemed to notice that evangelical were talking about politics. All the time. Everywhere. In sermons, at political conventions, at church gatherings."
I'm a minister in South Africa, where we are facing some of these same issues in the church. Coming from a distinguished witness against racism, apartheid, and the politics of exclusion, it's like we've been shamed into abandoning a space that those on the right have flooded with oppressive, colonial-supremacist, and regressive theologies. Thank you for this excellent reflection.
Just a few days later, and the landscape has changed! America and faith are for me, the "Great Conversation"--the one you'd have on a cross-country road trip. You call it the "Great Argument," which also rings true. And going forward, can we agree that we just might be heading for Phyllis Tickle's "Great Emergence" (the seismic change in Christianity that happens every 500 years)?
I agree we must talk more about faith and politics, but what that means to me is different from your take on the issue. The practical politics of the left and the right (i.e. Harris vs. Trump or Evangelical vs. Right to Chose, et al) , et al) are products of our social system. The politics we should be talking about in church is the efficacy of War, the practice of forgiveness, the emphasis of Love over Hate, the importance of communication and conciliation and human dignity, honest, fairness and the many, many other things that are the products of the teachings of Jesus. We don't hear that from the pulpits of the mainstream churches. Yet, the reason Jesus walked among us was to delivery wisdom on these basic issues. If a churches, like the Evangelicals wants to marshal their resources to stop a practice like abortion, that they feel is against their view of the teachings of Jesus, so be it. When there is ambiguity in Jesus's way, the Bibles way, the Pastors way and the Trump way, there is need for discussion, but we need to focus on these issues and discuss them to the best of our ability. Most of Jesus's teachings are clearer. The primacy of love, the importance of neighbor, the need to quickly resolve disputes, the value of forgiveness, the evil of killing and lying and assassination and abomination of War. These are all clear. We don't hear them enough from the pulpit. And, that we is why we don't incorporate them into our lives, our thinking and into our politics. Perhaps the real reason for the decline in mainstream churches is their lack of relevance to our everyday lives. Are they forced to think that the way to avoid Christian Nationalism is Atheism? If Pastors preached the gospel in a way that informed us as to the way we individually, and as a community and as a nation, should conduct our lives, in accordance with the teachings of Jesus, people would listen, especially because hearing it would be such a rare experience.
In 1972, when I wore my George McGovern shirt to a church function, I was told by the elders that Christians don't engage in politics. We vote, but we don't campaign. I still voted for McGovern, and I still wore the shirt. At least until I found a better one, "Don't blame me. I voted for McGovern." It doesn't fit, but it's still in my drawer. Strangely, when the born-again Jimmy Carter took office, evangelicals became political, but instead of backing the Christian Carter, they backed Ronald Reagan who believed in a "higher power" and whose wife consulted astrologers. Evangelicals have never been able to differentiate between the Politics of God, which they practice, and the politics of faith which tries to emulate Jesus' example.
As a now-atheist who grew up Methodist, you've reminded me of the times in the Old Methodist Church -- when we used to have long, thoughtful discussions.
As an alternative to "messiness" and "tension" in "figuring out" how politics and religion fit together into a reasonable, heartful, respectful, and civil society where everyone gets to speak and everyone gets to be heard. There is an organization dedicated to teaching how we can be civil, reasonable, respectful, and non-combative in all our communications with one another. That organization is BRAVER ANGELS. www.braver angels.org. Braver Angels has a national HQ with chapters in many cities that teaches a model that anyone can learn from. They have a podcast, community discussions, and actual workshops where people can come together using a structured plan to hear and to speak to one another without animosity and without conflict. I have participated in their online trainings and in one-on-one phone conversations with people totally unlike myself to learn how to harmonize with them without changing or giving up my own beliefs Or insisting that they change theirs. If that idea appeals to you, get in touch with www.braverangels.org and experience what they have for you. You do not have to become a member of Braver Angels, but if you decide to the dues are $12.00 annually.
Churches and church attendance is declining among most denominations. Some have left evangelical churches because they were turned off by the hysterics and behavior of “evangelical” politicians. In my hometown, mainline protestant churches and our one Catholic Church were stable pillars along with schools, local businesses, city government and farmers who all worked together for the community’s welfare. That was long ago. The church today does not serve that binding purpose. I never heard or saw any evidence that protestant ministers’ radical politics upset lay people and they then left the church. Is the lack of political discussion in protestant churches a factor in their decline? I do not think so. (HR Niebuhr is helpful here). Going to church is now a lukewarm, often meaningless experience. It does not address the challenges and meaning of living – day in and day out. How can we face Reality, The Way Life Is, and find the courage to be? The fact is that the 20th Century church as an edifice, as an institution, as a meaningful form of Christian practice is dying. Serious, mindful, and thoughtful Christians must ask these questions: How do we experience GOD in our ordinary living? What does faith mean? We must be clear that it does not mean to believe something exists (Marcus Borg was clear on this). How can we have trust, love, and be loyal to all of life (not just what we like, or wish will happen)? Good theology will help us. I, fortunately, attended a United Methodist church seminar in 1968 in Phoenix that exposed me to the Niebuhr brothers and Paul Tillich. My eyes were opened. The best way to practice a relevant Christianity is to participate on a regular basis in a small group (15 persons or less, in person & not virtual) and discuss these matters, pray about them, read a scripture which you metaphorically translate and sing a song.) John Philip Newell recommends something similar. See his website. We must learn to Love God and what that really means before we can love our neighbor as ourselves.
I watched that first video with you talking with Tim and was admittedly a little dumbfounded because I felt so bad for Tim. Like you, I am a late boomer and I honestly think I forget that age gap thing. I admire Tim so much and all his hard work, time and energy hi pours into his Podcasts and videos. The whole Faith and Politics class was brilliant and I am grateful to all of you for doing that series.
This piece appeared unexpectedly in my email. It was especially poignant and moving after hearing you both in the Faith and Politics for the Rest of Us class. You have yourself another subscriber!
Thank you for this. When I was participating in EfM (Education for Ministry) we had excellent conversations around theology and current affairs, with much wrestling of the various viewpoints.
I shared this post on my Facebook page. Time grows short and we need to stop sticking our heads in the sand
YES . . . "Silence is not an option." And just talking isn't enough. We need to act. We need to embody the love we know in Christ in this messy and conflictual world so that peace and justice are demonstrated, experienced, and named. I began my ministry in the late fifties . . . in and from the civil rights movement and "finished" my studies in the early sixties. There was ample opposition, hostile at times, in and through mainline churches then, yes . . . at the "talk" but especially to the "walk."
Hard to talk, however, when those you are talking to/with do not speak/understand the language you are using...or how it applies to their life/them.
I'm speaking from experience....definitely feel a stranger in a strange land here in rural CO where my lived experience is in no way/shape/form one that most (angry MAGA) residents can relate to.
Wow, you really hit a note with this. There are many nuggets of pure gold here. Amongst others bits, this section jumped out.
"Yet, nobody seemed to notice that evangelical were talking about politics. All the time. Everywhere. In sermons, at political conventions, at church gatherings."
I'm a minister in South Africa, where we are facing some of these same issues in the church. Coming from a distinguished witness against racism, apartheid, and the politics of exclusion, it's like we've been shamed into abandoning a space that those on the right have flooded with oppressive, colonial-supremacist, and regressive theologies. Thank you for this excellent reflection.
Just a few days later, and the landscape has changed! America and faith are for me, the "Great Conversation"--the one you'd have on a cross-country road trip. You call it the "Great Argument," which also rings true. And going forward, can we agree that we just might be heading for Phyllis Tickle's "Great Emergence" (the seismic change in Christianity that happens every 500 years)?
I agree we must talk more about faith and politics, but what that means to me is different from your take on the issue. The practical politics of the left and the right (i.e. Harris vs. Trump or Evangelical vs. Right to Chose, et al) , et al) are products of our social system. The politics we should be talking about in church is the efficacy of War, the practice of forgiveness, the emphasis of Love over Hate, the importance of communication and conciliation and human dignity, honest, fairness and the many, many other things that are the products of the teachings of Jesus. We don't hear that from the pulpits of the mainstream churches. Yet, the reason Jesus walked among us was to delivery wisdom on these basic issues. If a churches, like the Evangelicals wants to marshal their resources to stop a practice like abortion, that they feel is against their view of the teachings of Jesus, so be it. When there is ambiguity in Jesus's way, the Bibles way, the Pastors way and the Trump way, there is need for discussion, but we need to focus on these issues and discuss them to the best of our ability. Most of Jesus's teachings are clearer. The primacy of love, the importance of neighbor, the need to quickly resolve disputes, the value of forgiveness, the evil of killing and lying and assassination and abomination of War. These are all clear. We don't hear them enough from the pulpit. And, that we is why we don't incorporate them into our lives, our thinking and into our politics. Perhaps the real reason for the decline in mainstream churches is their lack of relevance to our everyday lives. Are they forced to think that the way to avoid Christian Nationalism is Atheism? If Pastors preached the gospel in a way that informed us as to the way we individually, and as a community and as a nation, should conduct our lives, in accordance with the teachings of Jesus, people would listen, especially because hearing it would be such a rare experience.
Spot On, As Usual. Thanks for sharing this timely message.
In 1972, when I wore my George McGovern shirt to a church function, I was told by the elders that Christians don't engage in politics. We vote, but we don't campaign. I still voted for McGovern, and I still wore the shirt. At least until I found a better one, "Don't blame me. I voted for McGovern." It doesn't fit, but it's still in my drawer. Strangely, when the born-again Jimmy Carter took office, evangelicals became political, but instead of backing the Christian Carter, they backed Ronald Reagan who believed in a "higher power" and whose wife consulted astrologers. Evangelicals have never been able to differentiate between the Politics of God, which they practice, and the politics of faith which tries to emulate Jesus' example.
I so get that "need to fix." Probably my biggest positive AND negative characteristic.
Your commentary took my breath away...and brought tears to my eyes, too.
Much thanks for this so-much-needed lessoning.
I'm copying one of the final paragraphs and taping it to the fridge door, so I'll be REMINDED to speak truth....not just truth to power.
As a now-atheist who grew up Methodist, you've reminded me of the times in the Old Methodist Church -- when we used to have long, thoughtful discussions.
Ah well. The Marxists won.
Thanks for a thoughtful article.
As an alternative to "messiness" and "tension" in "figuring out" how politics and religion fit together into a reasonable, heartful, respectful, and civil society where everyone gets to speak and everyone gets to be heard. There is an organization dedicated to teaching how we can be civil, reasonable, respectful, and non-combative in all our communications with one another. That organization is BRAVER ANGELS. www.braver angels.org. Braver Angels has a national HQ with chapters in many cities that teaches a model that anyone can learn from. They have a podcast, community discussions, and actual workshops where people can come together using a structured plan to hear and to speak to one another without animosity and without conflict. I have participated in their online trainings and in one-on-one phone conversations with people totally unlike myself to learn how to harmonize with them without changing or giving up my own beliefs Or insisting that they change theirs. If that idea appeals to you, get in touch with www.braverangels.org and experience what they have for you. You do not have to become a member of Braver Angels, but if you decide to the dues are $12.00 annually.
Churches and church attendance is declining among most denominations. Some have left evangelical churches because they were turned off by the hysterics and behavior of “evangelical” politicians. In my hometown, mainline protestant churches and our one Catholic Church were stable pillars along with schools, local businesses, city government and farmers who all worked together for the community’s welfare. That was long ago. The church today does not serve that binding purpose. I never heard or saw any evidence that protestant ministers’ radical politics upset lay people and they then left the church. Is the lack of political discussion in protestant churches a factor in their decline? I do not think so. (HR Niebuhr is helpful here). Going to church is now a lukewarm, often meaningless experience. It does not address the challenges and meaning of living – day in and day out. How can we face Reality, The Way Life Is, and find the courage to be? The fact is that the 20th Century church as an edifice, as an institution, as a meaningful form of Christian practice is dying. Serious, mindful, and thoughtful Christians must ask these questions: How do we experience GOD in our ordinary living? What does faith mean? We must be clear that it does not mean to believe something exists (Marcus Borg was clear on this). How can we have trust, love, and be loyal to all of life (not just what we like, or wish will happen)? Good theology will help us. I, fortunately, attended a United Methodist church seminar in 1968 in Phoenix that exposed me to the Niebuhr brothers and Paul Tillich. My eyes were opened. The best way to practice a relevant Christianity is to participate on a regular basis in a small group (15 persons or less, in person & not virtual) and discuss these matters, pray about them, read a scripture which you metaphorically translate and sing a song.) John Philip Newell recommends something similar. See his website. We must learn to Love God and what that really means before we can love our neighbor as ourselves.
Houston Markley
RE: Going to church is now a lukewarm, often meaningless experience. It does not address the challenges and meaning of living – day in and day out.
You wonderfully articulated my feeling/experience.
And we soooooooooo need a place-of-connectedness, especially now, where Jesus's "way" isn't just walked but talked.
I watched that first video with you talking with Tim and was admittedly a little dumbfounded because I felt so bad for Tim. Like you, I am a late boomer and I honestly think I forget that age gap thing. I admire Tim so much and all his hard work, time and energy hi pours into his Podcasts and videos. The whole Faith and Politics class was brilliant and I am grateful to all of you for doing that series.
This piece appeared unexpectedly in my email. It was especially poignant and moving after hearing you both in the Faith and Politics for the Rest of Us class. You have yourself another subscriber!
🙂🙏🏻
Thank you for this. When I was participating in EfM (Education for Ministry) we had excellent conversations around theology and current affairs, with much wrestling of the various viewpoints.
I shared this post on my Facebook page. Time grows short and we need to stop sticking our heads in the sand
Amen!!!
YES . . . "Silence is not an option." And just talking isn't enough. We need to act. We need to embody the love we know in Christ in this messy and conflictual world so that peace and justice are demonstrated, experienced, and named. I began my ministry in the late fifties . . . in and from the civil rights movement and "finished" my studies in the early sixties. There was ample opposition, hostile at times, in and through mainline churches then, yes . . . at the "talk" but especially to the "walk."
Hard to talk, however, when those you are talking to/with do not speak/understand the language you are using...or how it applies to their life/them.
I'm speaking from experience....definitely feel a stranger in a strange land here in rural CO where my lived experience is in no way/shape/form one that most (angry MAGA) residents can relate to.
Beautifully stated! Diana, I hope everyone who reads this shared it and that everyone who reads heeds the call!