I finished the book today and am making my way through the videos. Thank you so much! I found the book very hopeful. Throughout the centuries there were people calling us back to the Love that is the basic Christian tenet.
I’m behind on this series, so just catching up on this great series.
As I wrote in our church’s Lenten Devotional a few years back, “Jesus didn’t say the most important thing is to be right. He said the most important thing is to love.” Most Christians at many different points on the theological spectrum would agree that human words are insufficient to express the magnificence of the spiritual realm. If so, the words of our creeds, even if true, are insufficient. Arguing about those words is futile. Reformations based on choice of words are misguided. Reformations based on a lack of love in the church can do much good. We shouldn’t fall into the trap of holding on to specific interpretations as the basis of what makes “our” church different.
“By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another” – John 13:35.
I'm really appreciating this study. It blows my mind to think the teenage me who somehow (was it my lack of self esteem) doubted my faith believing it fell short of "theologia spinosa". To read this now helps me to see what I thought as a lack of faith was not that but faith rooted in "theologia practica". In my life I have put myself in harms way because I did not hear the heartbeat of my faith. This leads me to cheer on for a new American reformation embracing empathy and loving our neighbor. How does this power hungry CN impact the teenage believers? Their future in faith?
I can't even think about the next 500 years. Maybe the next 5. Our world is on the brink of something - not sure what, but it doesn't look good. And so many Christians are remaining silent. I will say, I was at a lunch with Interfaith clergy in Naples this week. A couple of them have been to Alligator Alcatraz. Efforts are now underway to set up a routine so there are always clergy there. I will be one of them. There are tents across the street for the vigil keepers/protesters.
I've seen other Christian protestors at protest. I've also hear Christian's say about the protest, "he's the president, if you dont agree you should still respect." What is happening now is beyond polotical opinions. It is wrong. Strength to the warriors that are protesting near Alligator Alcatraz.
The battle rages on between the "Beast" of Revelation and the Lord God of all creation. Why? Why does God allow this blasphemy to exist? Was Calvin right? Is God identifying those whose names are written in the Book of Life through their demonstration of faith, belief, and practice and winnowing those others out of the Kingdom through our lived experience, in this way? If so, why again? If we are "predestined" for eternal salvation, why this test? The seeds of our own self-immolation are within our very proud attempt to codify the meaning of life, without the heart's more sincere understanding. Those so-called Church fathers who presumed to tell us in their own words what the Truth of God consists in, sowed their own hubristic demise and led their adherents down the path of destruction as swine racing over the cliff. I wish that Augustine, Calvin and the like misguided and misguiding scholastic bloviators would shut up and just live The Jesus Way.
Thank you, Diana,for this great teaching - I am learning so much. But honestly, the words that caught my heart and soul were what you shared about the unspeakable terror being wrought on our fellow citizens, immigrants and neighbors. The report from Florida’s Alcatraz turned my stomach, as well, and I continue wondering why I still call myself a Christian! I love Father, Son and Holy Spirit with all of my heart and to think our administration and its supporters are profiting from and in favor of this evil has me brokenhearted.
I am wondering how many people have only so much budgeted money for media support and if that pot of money also includes their NPR donations and SubStack subscriptions. I know I am looking carefully at where I can increase or decrease subscriptions do I can move more money over to NPR. (Your subscription is on the safe list for my budget.)
Thanks, Billie, for your support. I appreciate it.
And yes, I've been increasing my support of NPR/PBS and various authors and journalists through Substack. Together, we all have more economic power than we know. And we needn't be rich to make a difference. A community of small givers can do a great deal.
I've occasionally used this as an outline for preaching on "Reformation Sunday"
If we can do it without fostering “Lutheran triumphalism” (I’m old enough to recall my father’s “thank-God-we’re-not-papists” Reformation Day sermons), we might attend both to some of the key emphases of the Reformers and to some of the potential pitfalls that have continued to plague both the tradition and the church as a whole. This from an old sermon/teaching outline (occasionally modified)
Reformation: What went wrong?
stress on questions of authority>no authority but me
stress on preaching and misuse of sacraments>lost emphasis on sacramental life
stress on personal justification and responsibility>lost sense of community of faith
stress on iconoclastic tendencies>lost sense of centrality of visual and artistic symbols of the faith
stress on reformation of liturgical abuse, e.g. attack on canon of mass>lost sense of centrality of catholic liturgy
stress on reform of hierarchy>lost ecclesiology
stress on vernacular>lost sense of a language of faith and community
stress on personal Bible study>lost sense of community of study and common interpretation
stress on justification by grace>lost sense of Christian ethics and praxis
stress on priesthood of all believers >lost sense of importance of pastoral leadership
stress on dividing law and gospel>lost sense of the unity of God’s Word and “antinomianism”
stress on Lutheran>lost sense of the catholicity of the one Church
Aren't Spener's insights known to history as Pietism? And is there a connection between Spener's concerns about dry religion and the similar insights of John Wesley in England a century later? I seem to recall reading somewhere about dry, intellectual but lifeless preaching in the Church of England of Wesley's day that Spener similarly notes in the Lutheran preaching of his day.
Nothing can be reformed without loving our neighbors. That is the only way to reformation. I loved the conversation with Jemar. We need to have those conversations with our friends, family and in our churches.
I can’t be the only person to see the Reformation as a wrong turn for Christianity. Throwing out the Spirt and locking Faith into the Word - into Doctrine - has left Protestant Christianity as a spiritual wasteland. You’ll have to look long and hard to have a spiritual experience in a Protestant church. A good potluck - yes; the Spirit, nope. I know, I was raised in the Lutheran Church and, although I didn’t know it at the time, I left fifty years ago for that very reason
I think the last 500 years clearly shows the sin of the church. And the patriarchal role of doctrine and rigidity in being pure and perfect leaves many longing for a true connection. The fast pace of modern life and the pandemic has us fragmented and weary. Trauma is so prevalent and is getting transmitted back to the collective consciousness.
We cannot give up but follow a more mystical path and do our own work.
I think the CAC in Albuquerque is doing incredible work.
Christian teachings must include the embodiment and experience of that consciousness connection. The mystery and awe must be brought into practice.
Also , the teachings of Eckhart Toile are very much on point and he quotes Jesus and scripture in his lectures.
Diane, I thank you for your heart for Jesus and for expertise.
You are a MUCH needed voice
I finished the book today and am making my way through the videos. Thank you so much! I found the book very hopeful. Throughout the centuries there were people calling us back to the Love that is the basic Christian tenet.
I’m behind on this series, so just catching up on this great series.
As I wrote in our church’s Lenten Devotional a few years back, “Jesus didn’t say the most important thing is to be right. He said the most important thing is to love.” Most Christians at many different points on the theological spectrum would agree that human words are insufficient to express the magnificence of the spiritual realm. If so, the words of our creeds, even if true, are insufficient. Arguing about those words is futile. Reformations based on choice of words are misguided. Reformations based on a lack of love in the church can do much good. We shouldn’t fall into the trap of holding on to specific interpretations as the basis of what makes “our” church different.
“By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another” – John 13:35.
I'm really appreciating this study. It blows my mind to think the teenage me who somehow (was it my lack of self esteem) doubted my faith believing it fell short of "theologia spinosa". To read this now helps me to see what I thought as a lack of faith was not that but faith rooted in "theologia practica". In my life I have put myself in harms way because I did not hear the heartbeat of my faith. This leads me to cheer on for a new American reformation embracing empathy and loving our neighbor. How does this power hungry CN impact the teenage believers? Their future in faith?
I can't even think about the next 500 years. Maybe the next 5. Our world is on the brink of something - not sure what, but it doesn't look good. And so many Christians are remaining silent. I will say, I was at a lunch with Interfaith clergy in Naples this week. A couple of them have been to Alligator Alcatraz. Efforts are now underway to set up a routine so there are always clergy there. I will be one of them. There are tents across the street for the vigil keepers/protesters.
I've seen other Christian protestors at protest. I've also hear Christian's say about the protest, "he's the president, if you dont agree you should still respect." What is happening now is beyond polotical opinions. It is wrong. Strength to the warriors that are protesting near Alligator Alcatraz.
The battle rages on between the "Beast" of Revelation and the Lord God of all creation. Why? Why does God allow this blasphemy to exist? Was Calvin right? Is God identifying those whose names are written in the Book of Life through their demonstration of faith, belief, and practice and winnowing those others out of the Kingdom through our lived experience, in this way? If so, why again? If we are "predestined" for eternal salvation, why this test? The seeds of our own self-immolation are within our very proud attempt to codify the meaning of life, without the heart's more sincere understanding. Those so-called Church fathers who presumed to tell us in their own words what the Truth of God consists in, sowed their own hubristic demise and led their adherents down the path of destruction as swine racing over the cliff. I wish that Augustine, Calvin and the like misguided and misguiding scholastic bloviators would shut up and just live The Jesus Way.
Thank you, Diana,for this great teaching - I am learning so much. But honestly, the words that caught my heart and soul were what you shared about the unspeakable terror being wrought on our fellow citizens, immigrants and neighbors. The report from Florida’s Alcatraz turned my stomach, as well, and I continue wondering why I still call myself a Christian! I love Father, Son and Holy Spirit with all of my heart and to think our administration and its supporters are profiting from and in favor of this evil has me brokenhearted.
I am wondering how many people have only so much budgeted money for media support and if that pot of money also includes their NPR donations and SubStack subscriptions. I know I am looking carefully at where I can increase or decrease subscriptions do I can move more money over to NPR. (Your subscription is on the safe list for my budget.)
Thanks, Billie, for your support. I appreciate it.
And yes, I've been increasing my support of NPR/PBS and various authors and journalists through Substack. Together, we all have more economic power than we know. And we needn't be rich to make a difference. A community of small givers can do a great deal.
So true
I am so sad that we are forced to choose when new voices need support also.
Choosing can be hard! But it is amazing there are so many passionate, thoughtful, amazing, and fearless writers working right now.
I've occasionally used this as an outline for preaching on "Reformation Sunday"
If we can do it without fostering “Lutheran triumphalism” (I’m old enough to recall my father’s “thank-God-we’re-not-papists” Reformation Day sermons), we might attend both to some of the key emphases of the Reformers and to some of the potential pitfalls that have continued to plague both the tradition and the church as a whole. This from an old sermon/teaching outline (occasionally modified)
Reformation: What went wrong?
stress on questions of authority>no authority but me
stress on preaching and misuse of sacraments>lost emphasis on sacramental life
stress on personal justification and responsibility>lost sense of community of faith
stress on iconoclastic tendencies>lost sense of centrality of visual and artistic symbols of the faith
stress on reformation of liturgical abuse, e.g. attack on canon of mass>lost sense of centrality of catholic liturgy
stress on reform of hierarchy>lost ecclesiology
stress on vernacular>lost sense of a language of faith and community
stress on personal Bible study>lost sense of community of study and common interpretation
stress on justification by grace>lost sense of Christian ethics and praxis
stress on priesthood of all believers >lost sense of importance of pastoral leadership
stress on dividing law and gospel>lost sense of the unity of God’s Word and “antinomianism”
stress on Lutheran>lost sense of the catholicity of the one Church
Aren't Spener's insights known to history as Pietism? And is there a connection between Spener's concerns about dry religion and the similar insights of John Wesley in England a century later? I seem to recall reading somewhere about dry, intellectual but lifeless preaching in the Church of England of Wesley's day that Spener similarly notes in the Lutheran preaching of his day.
Nothing can be reformed without loving our neighbors. That is the only way to reformation. I loved the conversation with Jemar. We need to have those conversations with our friends, family and in our churches.
Thank you for putting flesh on some dry bones of history. Spener’s work is on the bookshelf behind me—now I want to drop everything and read it.
I think that these sessions are very helpful.
Thanks for reading portions of the history as we move forward!
I'm going to have to catch up enjoy this series in September due to travel and other commitments. Thank for keeping it available!
I can’t be the only person to see the Reformation as a wrong turn for Christianity. Throwing out the Spirt and locking Faith into the Word - into Doctrine - has left Protestant Christianity as a spiritual wasteland. You’ll have to look long and hard to have a spiritual experience in a Protestant church. A good potluck - yes; the Spirit, nope. I know, I was raised in the Lutheran Church and, although I didn’t know it at the time, I left fifty years ago for that very reason
I think the last 500 years clearly shows the sin of the church. And the patriarchal role of doctrine and rigidity in being pure and perfect leaves many longing for a true connection. The fast pace of modern life and the pandemic has us fragmented and weary. Trauma is so prevalent and is getting transmitted back to the collective consciousness.
We cannot give up but follow a more mystical path and do our own work.
I think the CAC in Albuquerque is doing incredible work.
Christian teachings must include the embodiment and experience of that consciousness connection. The mystery and awe must be brought into practice.
Also , the teachings of Eckhart Toile are very much on point and he quotes Jesus and scripture in his lectures.
agree with you about CAC. so much good theology there.