I don’t know how to email you so I am going to try this means of asking a question. I am a retired United Methodist pastor. I taught a class last year leading up to the election using Jim Wallis’ False White Gospel. I am looking to do something timely this fall. What book of yours would you recommend? I am reading A People’s History in anticipation of your July series wondering if that will work. What are your thoughts?
Thank you for your observation, Dianna! Your sharing is the way I have always understood this passage. I liken to the Baptismal Covenant in the Episcopal Church: Will you respect the dignity of every person? I will, with God’s help.
I was trying to get back to your second post and came upon this one. I’m glad I did since I’m just starting Galatians as I read the Bible. I’ve read it before, but this gives ves me a new understanding. Thank you.
Wonderful post! Grateful. I could say more but I am going to “cut” to my question as I think it is potentially very important to this conversation. It has to do with OT Hebrew interpretation. I have a Masters in Divinity but never took Hebrew.
Talk to me about the term “davka” in Ruth 1: 14-19 and “davak” in Genesis 2:24. My VERY limited research heads in the direction of understanding the Hebrew terms to mean "the act of opening ourselves to another– to really seeing someone else; to reaching across that empathetic divide; to being willing to foreground their needs over our own interests. . . . . when we're willing to accept support as much as give it; to live in interdependent relationship; that's when we begin to really find our way.” Or as the earliest hymn of the church would say it, "There is no Jew or Greek, there is no slave or free, there is no male and female; For you are all one in Christ Jesus.” . . . Or as Genesis would have it the Humans of Creation would “be one” in continuing to care for ALL Creation, Creatures, and Humanity.
I’ll leave it there. It’s taken me an hour to condense my recent collection of thoughts this much. I am what Jason Petty, aka Propaganda calls an “OTWSNP”. An "Old Timer with a Walking Stick and No Placques on the Walls”. (turning 70 in a month but the walking stick is figurative ;)
I was looking through my various versions of the Bible that I have studied from in the past and still use for comparison (NKJV, NASB, NIV, ESV, and NLT). None of them use "no longer"; they all say "neither". Also, they use "tutor" or "guardian" instead of "disciplinarian". I am curious about what version you were quoting. Oddly, after being immersed in the Word for about 68 years, I only fairly recently ran into replacement theology online. Even from the number of evangelical churches I have attended over the years, I had never heard this and consider it absurd, having read and studied through the Bible a number of times. "Otherness" seemed to be ingrained in the original sinfulness of humans.
Diana, I’ve appreciated your fresh approach and scholarship. I was surprised that the relatively young (1989) New Revised Standard, one which is considered liberal, would add the “no longer” phrase to Galatians 3:28.
I’m not a biblical scholar but I love to learn and research so I checked other versions. My favorite, and one that is probably considered more conservative is NASB, published in 1960. It doesn’t include “no longer”, but reads “There is neither…” Then I checked the NIV (1978); which also reads “There is neither…” While I don’t regularly read the KJV, I thought I’d check that granddaddy too-published in 1769 and for 300 years considered the authorized version for an English translation. I was surprised to find it also reads “there is neither…” None of the older, more conservative translations seemed to indicate inclusiveness in this passage.
I did find one other version that added “no longer;” it was the New Living Translation from 1996.
My conclusion, as I’ve learned from other research, is to check a variety of translations but always go back to the original Greek or Hebrew as you have here. Humans, by our very nature, are faulty. Especially me! 🤗
Thank you, Diana, for the slow, patient resurrection of the original text and context of these life-giving words. I appreciate, as always, the history lesson, and the link to another historian. I admire the pains you take to say what the creed does not mean, as much as what it does mean.
BTW, I noticed that a couple weeks ago (June 8), you apologized for the link to the monopoly bookstore. Thanks for caring about that. Capitalism is the great excluder, dividing the haves from the have-nots. Patterson's book is available on bookshop.org, a more inclusive bookstore.
Thank you again for you thoughtful words. Now I read your post today and again was so well informed. I tried to send it to a niece but if I did I lost it on my computer. !! Could you possible resend. Thank you Looking forward to July class. Peace. Bonita
I think you are diminishing the promise of Jesus in Luke 22 where Jesus offers a New Covenant and he violates Mosaic traditions throughout his ministry. Paul is “fired up” because the Jerusalem Church is clinging to Mosaic traditions.(Acts 15) The New Covenant is offered to Gentile and Jew freed from man’s (Jewish) traditions. Paul “gets it” because of the yoke he bore under the weight of his Pharisee practices and traditions.
The Patterson book is absolutely fantastic! So appreciate your reflection with its recognition that in fact all means all. The sin of us vs them requires recognition, confession, forgiveness rooted in faithful practice of solidarity with God and therefore one another no matter what or who keeps trying to undermine that soludarity.
Man’s hierarchy is complicated and a false flag. God and his son created a simple hierarchy in the Commandments. God is at the top. Humankind is below that, even if created in God’s image. God did not set up human social structures or rank groups of humans by inherent privilege. Gender irrelevant. Ethnicity irrelevant. Cultural mores irrelevant. All believers have been gifted by a loving God. But, that gift comes with strings. We must love others as God has loved us.
Of course, it is human nature, as the disciples exhibited, to want to claim special status relative to others. That is the devil’s temptation and it has been used against God’s creation since the beginning.
Thank goodness for faith, forgiveness and God’s permanence. Unconditional love is rare. But, it is God’s greatest gift.
Though it’s painful for me to stand right now (I just had a knee replacement), this meditation made me want to stand up and cheer.
There’s so much nonsense in what Christians learn about Paul, so many ways his message has been misunderstood and distorted. But this inclusiveness and equality through Christ is the core of Paul’s word—(and thanks also for connecting this text to Genesis 1 and the Torah). Reading it this morning was like breathing pure oxygen.
I don’t know how to email you so I am going to try this means of asking a question. I am a retired United Methodist pastor. I taught a class last year leading up to the election using Jim Wallis’ False White Gospel. I am looking to do something timely this fall. What book of yours would you recommend? I am reading A People’s History in anticipation of your July series wondering if that will work. What are your thoughts?
Thank you for your observation, Dianna! Your sharing is the way I have always understood this passage. I liken to the Baptismal Covenant in the Episcopal Church: Will you respect the dignity of every person? I will, with God’s help.
Good clarification.. Best I've heard. Thanks.
What a powerful reflection. A much needed solace on Sunday evening.
I was trying to get back to your second post and came upon this one. I’m glad I did since I’m just starting Galatians as I read the Bible. I’ve read it before, but this gives ves me a new understanding. Thank you.
Thank you Diana...you are such a blessing!
Wonderful post! Grateful. I could say more but I am going to “cut” to my question as I think it is potentially very important to this conversation. It has to do with OT Hebrew interpretation. I have a Masters in Divinity but never took Hebrew.
Talk to me about the term “davka” in Ruth 1: 14-19 and “davak” in Genesis 2:24. My VERY limited research heads in the direction of understanding the Hebrew terms to mean "the act of opening ourselves to another– to really seeing someone else; to reaching across that empathetic divide; to being willing to foreground their needs over our own interests. . . . . when we're willing to accept support as much as give it; to live in interdependent relationship; that's when we begin to really find our way.” Or as the earliest hymn of the church would say it, "There is no Jew or Greek, there is no slave or free, there is no male and female; For you are all one in Christ Jesus.” . . . Or as Genesis would have it the Humans of Creation would “be one” in continuing to care for ALL Creation, Creatures, and Humanity.
I’ll leave it there. It’s taken me an hour to condense my recent collection of thoughts this much. I am what Jason Petty, aka Propaganda calls an “OTWSNP”. An "Old Timer with a Walking Stick and No Placques on the Walls”. (turning 70 in a month but the walking stick is figurative ;)
Gratefully
I was looking through my various versions of the Bible that I have studied from in the past and still use for comparison (NKJV, NASB, NIV, ESV, and NLT). None of them use "no longer"; they all say "neither". Also, they use "tutor" or "guardian" instead of "disciplinarian". I am curious about what version you were quoting. Oddly, after being immersed in the Word for about 68 years, I only fairly recently ran into replacement theology online. Even from the number of evangelical churches I have attended over the years, I had never heard this and consider it absurd, having read and studied through the Bible a number of times. "Otherness" seemed to be ingrained in the original sinfulness of humans.
Diana, I’ve appreciated your fresh approach and scholarship. I was surprised that the relatively young (1989) New Revised Standard, one which is considered liberal, would add the “no longer” phrase to Galatians 3:28.
I’m not a biblical scholar but I love to learn and research so I checked other versions. My favorite, and one that is probably considered more conservative is NASB, published in 1960. It doesn’t include “no longer”, but reads “There is neither…” Then I checked the NIV (1978); which also reads “There is neither…” While I don’t regularly read the KJV, I thought I’d check that granddaddy too-published in 1769 and for 300 years considered the authorized version for an English translation. I was surprised to find it also reads “there is neither…” None of the older, more conservative translations seemed to indicate inclusiveness in this passage.
I did find one other version that added “no longer;” it was the New Living Translation from 1996.
My conclusion, as I’ve learned from other research, is to check a variety of translations but always go back to the original Greek or Hebrew as you have here. Humans, by our very nature, are faulty. Especially me! 🤗
Thank you, Diana, for the slow, patient resurrection of the original text and context of these life-giving words. I appreciate, as always, the history lesson, and the link to another historian. I admire the pains you take to say what the creed does not mean, as much as what it does mean.
BTW, I noticed that a couple weeks ago (June 8), you apologized for the link to the monopoly bookstore. Thanks for caring about that. Capitalism is the great excluder, dividing the haves from the have-nots. Patterson's book is available on bookshop.org, a more inclusive bookstore.
Thank you again for you thoughtful words. Now I read your post today and again was so well informed. I tried to send it to a niece but if I did I lost it on my computer. !! Could you possible resend. Thank you Looking forward to July class. Peace. Bonita
Transformative! Thank you! ❤️
I think you are diminishing the promise of Jesus in Luke 22 where Jesus offers a New Covenant and he violates Mosaic traditions throughout his ministry. Paul is “fired up” because the Jerusalem Church is clinging to Mosaic traditions.(Acts 15) The New Covenant is offered to Gentile and Jew freed from man’s (Jewish) traditions. Paul “gets it” because of the yoke he bore under the weight of his Pharisee practices and traditions.
The Patterson book is absolutely fantastic! So appreciate your reflection with its recognition that in fact all means all. The sin of us vs them requires recognition, confession, forgiveness rooted in faithful practice of solidarity with God and therefore one another no matter what or who keeps trying to undermine that soludarity.
Man’s hierarchy is complicated and a false flag. God and his son created a simple hierarchy in the Commandments. God is at the top. Humankind is below that, even if created in God’s image. God did not set up human social structures or rank groups of humans by inherent privilege. Gender irrelevant. Ethnicity irrelevant. Cultural mores irrelevant. All believers have been gifted by a loving God. But, that gift comes with strings. We must love others as God has loved us.
Of course, it is human nature, as the disciples exhibited, to want to claim special status relative to others. That is the devil’s temptation and it has been used against God’s creation since the beginning.
Thank goodness for faith, forgiveness and God’s permanence. Unconditional love is rare. But, it is God’s greatest gift.
Though it’s painful for me to stand right now (I just had a knee replacement), this meditation made me want to stand up and cheer.
There’s so much nonsense in what Christians learn about Paul, so many ways his message has been misunderstood and distorted. But this inclusiveness and equality through Christ is the core of Paul’s word—(and thanks also for connecting this text to Genesis 1 and the Torah). Reading it this morning was like breathing pure oxygen.
And may your knee continue to heal.!
Amen!
I love it too.