Same here, there is evil in all societies. Anyone believing their beliefs or their party or denomination is the right one. And, it's those other guys who are 'rong, aren't t in truth. Because Romans 3:10 & 23 says: there is none righteous, no, not one. All our righteousness is as fiflthy rags. I don't know about you; but, that's very humbling to me. Let God be true and every man a liar. We all have sinned. So, prophesying "they will meet the death angel by the end of last year" isn't a humble comment; nor loving! We are are to love our enemies, pray for them who use you or persecute you. . . So, whether you faithfully listen to Green or faithfully read your Bible, God is true, he speaks to all who will listen via His Holy Spirit. We should all share what we hear from God to edify each other, not take to other down with our knowledge; but, to encourage and strengthen one another as you see the day (Jesus to Mt. Olives) approaching. Bottom line: "Look up for your redemption draws nigh"! Blessings Elyne
Oh my goodness, this quote: "My quarrel is that she — and her followers — have misdiagnosed injustice and misunderstood the nature of God’s desire for the future."
The things I wish I could get my family to understand.
Thank you so much for breaking into the need for a new social imagination. " prophecy is a public performance that undermines political powers and offers a vision of the world that challenges dominant realities." As a post-ordained, dancing soul with a theo-kinetic imagination, (see the Hidden Monastery) I am on a long journey to understand my role as pastor, priest, and prophet. My performative roles are complex. I also descend from the family of Anne Marbury Hutchinson, that revelatory puritan, familist prophet who was early to push back on MAGA-like protestant male forces. I would love to see us reckon with our roots in the Antinomian controversy and how long we have been in the protestant Grace war. And how a woman like Anne, her family and followers stood up for us. If you'd like to see my written sermon on this-I'd be happy to share. In a time of aligning with the harm and hope of my white ancestors there is a great treasure chest there.
Thank you for clearly explaining why these people get so many followers. I have been thinking on gratitude (for a new song) for weeks now, which has kept me from feeling so fearful about our nation. The rise of Fascism in America is literally heartbreaking.
Thank you for getting to the reasons these people gain support. Can't believe you mentioned something about gratitude. That is all I have been thinking about lately for a new song. It keeps me from feeling despair over the rise of Fascism in America.
"We need a new social imagination." Thank you, Diana, for a new learning quest. What might a new social imagination accomplish in some of our dark times? To what "old" social imaginations do I still cling? Too often I have said that God is always doing something new. It is time to look for me to seek new imaginations. I will start with a quote by Geoff Mulgan.
"Every society needs some sense of where it might be headed in the future in order to be healthy, just as we do as individuals. We need some shared pictures of where we could be headed 30, 50, 70 years into the future, pictures which aren't only ecological disasters or technological determinist triumphs. That's the missing space in our collective imaginaries which we really need to address. Because the downside is that all sorts of other dark forces may fill that space instead."
I am reading this as a meditation while planning the Sunday sermon, which will honor the Reformation and locate my own PCUSA within the reformed tradition. The pyramid and table metaphor are so reflective of what began many years ago with Luther and are pertinent today. There are so many examples of how pyramids do not work for the benefit of God's people, such as pyramid schemes, tyrants, etc. It seems that people have always looked for a "king" or powerful leader to govern them, and that theme continues today. I'm looking forward to the November book discussion.
I like your nuanced and complex telling of this and I really enjoy reading your insights. So thank you! This quote will stay with me. “In the Bible, pyramid-shaped social structures always come to a bad end. God — and God’s prophets — always proclaim, press toward, and perform the reality of a non-hierarchical, alternative social structure: the table.
We have to find ways to go forward without shutting down a conversation with our friends. The table is such a real place for us to do that.
Sorry, Missed your whole message, cant do nuttin but be totally obsessed with that short julie green clip.
I do not like folks that talk at me, fast and that talk at me, loud and that do not give me space to think or even breathe. My ears to hear go numb. Even if she is the direct voice pipeline from the very Almighty herself, I need room to think, I need room to breathe. (And I do not like being told what to do.) Never have. Even from God.
In Matthew 7, as you know, Jesus has much to say in the description of the new kingdom of God based on acts of Love made known in the life of Jesus and proclaimed by the prophets who follow his way. Then again in John 14 Jesus says how we are to love one another as God loves Jesus, Jesus loves God, and we give acts of love to one another as God loves us. As you know, a prophet speaks of how God is present in the world, as we live the new kingdom of God and proclaim that kingdom in words and deeds. The fruits of a prophet as I read the Sermon is the fruits of a new kingdom based God's love, and a focus on God's way as proclaimed by Jesus and not our ways. Many claim to be followers of Jesus the Christ and primarily focus our human ways of power to establish God's kingdom in our image. We use the language of power of the world and make the ways of God a power that supports our views. These are my observation as I learn each day to make them in the love of God reveal in Jesus. Marcus Borg wrote to encourage us to reclaim the words of faith that have become lost in the words of culture and egocentric faith. Pardon my long response. But I have a broken heart over the way the followers of Jesus the Christ have used language to transform the faith into personal ways and power.
Oct 28, 2022·edited Oct 28, 2022Liked by Diana Butler Bass
A very old friend who has gotten caught up in all this dominion/7 mountains stuff sent me a youtube link from one of these "prophets" right after Trump lost the election. The prophet seemed so angry - he was name-calling, and bitter. I listened to about 5 minutes of it and then sent back an email to the friend saying "Jesus said we would be able to recognize His voice. This prophet doesn't sound like Jesus to me."
I think we do have to engage with those who are listening to these prophets because they have become influential in certain circles. We need to ask those who consider them prophets if they think this what Jesus sounds like. I'm sure that many of them will initially say yes. But the question will stay with them and they'll have to think about it.
Thank you for this forum. If we don't speak up and out, we'll lose this freedom
Same here, there is evil in all societies. Anyone believing their beliefs or their party or denomination is the right one. And, it's those other guys who are 'rong, aren't t in truth. Because Romans 3:10 & 23 says: there is none righteous, no, not one. All our righteousness is as fiflthy rags. I don't know about you; but, that's very humbling to me. Let God be true and every man a liar. We all have sinned. So, prophesying "they will meet the death angel by the end of last year" isn't a humble comment; nor loving! We are are to love our enemies, pray for them who use you or persecute you. . . So, whether you faithfully listen to Green or faithfully read your Bible, God is true, he speaks to all who will listen via His Holy Spirit. We should all share what we hear from God to edify each other, not take to other down with our knowledge; but, to encourage and strengthen one another as you see the day (Jesus to Mt. Olives) approaching. Bottom line: "Look up for your redemption draws nigh"! Blessings Elyne
Back to the table as the central image!
Oh my goodness, this quote: "My quarrel is that she — and her followers — have misdiagnosed injustice and misunderstood the nature of God’s desire for the future."
The things I wish I could get my family to understand.
Thank you so much for breaking into the need for a new social imagination. " prophecy is a public performance that undermines political powers and offers a vision of the world that challenges dominant realities." As a post-ordained, dancing soul with a theo-kinetic imagination, (see the Hidden Monastery) I am on a long journey to understand my role as pastor, priest, and prophet. My performative roles are complex. I also descend from the family of Anne Marbury Hutchinson, that revelatory puritan, familist prophet who was early to push back on MAGA-like protestant male forces. I would love to see us reckon with our roots in the Antinomian controversy and how long we have been in the protestant Grace war. And how a woman like Anne, her family and followers stood up for us. If you'd like to see my written sermon on this-I'd be happy to share. In a time of aligning with the harm and hope of my white ancestors there is a great treasure chest there.
This explanation is so helpful. I always learn from your articles. Thank you.
Thank you for clearly explaining why these people get so many followers. I have been thinking on gratitude (for a new song) for weeks now, which has kept me from feeling so fearful about our nation. The rise of Fascism in America is literally heartbreaking.
Thank you for getting to the reasons these people gain support. Can't believe you mentioned something about gratitude. That is all I have been thinking about lately for a new song. It keeps me from feeling despair over the rise of Fascism in America.
"We need a new social imagination." Thank you, Diana, for a new learning quest. What might a new social imagination accomplish in some of our dark times? To what "old" social imaginations do I still cling? Too often I have said that God is always doing something new. It is time to look for me to seek new imaginations. I will start with a quote by Geoff Mulgan.
"Every society needs some sense of where it might be headed in the future in order to be healthy, just as we do as individuals. We need some shared pictures of where we could be headed 30, 50, 70 years into the future, pictures which aren't only ecological disasters or technological determinist triumphs. That's the missing space in our collective imaginaries which we really need to address. Because the downside is that all sorts of other dark forces may fill that space instead."
I am reading this as a meditation while planning the Sunday sermon, which will honor the Reformation and locate my own PCUSA within the reformed tradition. The pyramid and table metaphor are so reflective of what began many years ago with Luther and are pertinent today. There are so many examples of how pyramids do not work for the benefit of God's people, such as pyramid schemes, tyrants, etc. It seems that people have always looked for a "king" or powerful leader to govern them, and that theme continues today. I'm looking forward to the November book discussion.
I like your nuanced and complex telling of this and I really enjoy reading your insights. So thank you! This quote will stay with me. “In the Bible, pyramid-shaped social structures always come to a bad end. God — and God’s prophets — always proclaim, press toward, and perform the reality of a non-hierarchical, alternative social structure: the table.
We have to find ways to go forward without shutting down a conversation with our friends. The table is such a real place for us to do that.
Sorry, Missed your whole message, cant do nuttin but be totally obsessed with that short julie green clip.
I do not like folks that talk at me, fast and that talk at me, loud and that do not give me space to think or even breathe. My ears to hear go numb. Even if she is the direct voice pipeline from the very Almighty herself, I need room to think, I need room to breathe. (And I do not like being told what to do.) Never have. Even from God.
In Matthew 7, as you know, Jesus has much to say in the description of the new kingdom of God based on acts of Love made known in the life of Jesus and proclaimed by the prophets who follow his way. Then again in John 14 Jesus says how we are to love one another as God loves Jesus, Jesus loves God, and we give acts of love to one another as God loves us. As you know, a prophet speaks of how God is present in the world, as we live the new kingdom of God and proclaim that kingdom in words and deeds. The fruits of a prophet as I read the Sermon is the fruits of a new kingdom based God's love, and a focus on God's way as proclaimed by Jesus and not our ways. Many claim to be followers of Jesus the Christ and primarily focus our human ways of power to establish God's kingdom in our image. We use the language of power of the world and make the ways of God a power that supports our views. These are my observation as I learn each day to make them in the love of God reveal in Jesus. Marcus Borg wrote to encourage us to reclaim the words of faith that have become lost in the words of culture and egocentric faith. Pardon my long response. But I have a broken heart over the way the followers of Jesus the Christ have used language to transform the faith into personal ways and power.
I am a fan of David French and the DISPATCH. And a fan of you . . . and Tripp. :-)
A very old friend who has gotten caught up in all this dominion/7 mountains stuff sent me a youtube link from one of these "prophets" right after Trump lost the election. The prophet seemed so angry - he was name-calling, and bitter. I listened to about 5 minutes of it and then sent back an email to the friend saying "Jesus said we would be able to recognize His voice. This prophet doesn't sound like Jesus to me."
I think we do have to engage with those who are listening to these prophets because they have become influential in certain circles. We need to ask those who consider them prophets if they think this what Jesus sounds like. I'm sure that many of them will initially say yes. But the question will stay with them and they'll have to think about it.
I love the image of the table where all are welcome, respected and fed.